The tipping culture leads to sexual harassment

[Deleted]

Problem, I believe it is not legally sexual harassment when you encourage it. So this seems like another misleading concept just like the redefinition of rape.

Perhaps not, who knows. Whether it's "legally" this or that isn't really relevant though. Servers should not be in a position where they are encouraged to flirt with patrons. That isn't okay, morally. People should not be put in that position.

Imagine you worked caring for old people, but the job was tip based and you were living on the poverty line, and old people were tipping more if... I dunno, you gave them a bit of a feel when you were showering them or helping them to the toilet. Imagine if your wage was such that in order to feed your family or pay your rent, you were being incentivised to do that kind of thing in order to get tips from them. Even if it was legally okay, morally it is not. People should not be put in that position.

[ItachiZaku]

Umm, whatnow?

They will sit close enough that arms are touching and in such cases that they also have chipped nail polish, i will touch their hands and comment.

[Deleted]

She wants a career as a waitress... there's your career lady, you gotta show em b**bs if you want to progress ... lol

So absurd, people nowadays want to sleep and get paid. Work, Work, Work, that's what will feed your kid. Now you don't want to wear any sexy clothes for the tips, you don't have to wear em just don't. Then don't complain about it also, you know that your job is based on tips if you don't like it change job. Now if you want the Government to issue a specific law that says customers have to tip or this and that, well then you can go f urself i think.

Yep, because people on the poverty line can just change jobs like that. It's no problem at all. If you quit your job because of harrassment and have no experience or qualifications outside of resturaunt work it's dead easy to just go get another job or just magic up the money to go to college / uni. Unemployment isn't even a real thing, it's only lazy people who can't be bothered to work, right?

/sarcasm.

[PizzaSHARK]

4 out of 5 female restaurant workers have been sexually harassed by customers.
2 out of 3 female restaurant workers are harassed on a monthly basis by their management.

Yeah, not sure how anyone can still defend the whole concept of tipping in a way that leads to workers not being paid an actual salary and hence they rely on the tips for their income. Just pretty damn unbelievable.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/us-...ual-harassment

Happens all the fucking time to guys, too. Difference is in how most men react to it, I guess. It can be creepy but we typically just laugh it off.

Drunk older women on business trips are usually pretty, uh, hands-on. You just smile and endure it because feigning interest is a great way of divorcing her from her money.

[Deleted]

Happens all the fucking time to guys, too. Difference is in how most men react to it, I guess. It can be creepy but we typically just laugh it off.

Drunk older women on business trips are usually pretty, uh, hands-on. You just smile and endure it because feigning interest is a great way of divorcing her from her money.

Damn straight.

[Orlong]

4 out of 5 female restaurant workers have been sexually harassed by customers.
2 out of 3 female restaurant workers are harassed on a monthly basis by their management.

Yeah, not sure how anyone can still defend the whole concept of tipping in a way that leads to workers not being paid an actual salary and hence they rely on the tips for their income. Just pretty damn unbelievable.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/us-...ual-harassment

It works the other way around too. Many people who eat at restaurants dont appreciate being sexually harassed by their servers as they come over and serve your food in super low cut tops (an effort to make men give bigger tips) with their giant boobs hanging out and wearing skirts so short their ass cheeks show when they bend over to pick stuff up. If I want to see that kind of crap, Id go to a nudie bar.

[Deleted]

oh well i dont need to tip, if it makes women happy not be tipped because of their looks or light flirting i can just tip men in the future. Less money to spend is always welcome.

And btw who talks about the practise of hiring young women who especially focus on young men, lure them into donation treaties by giving them false hope that this women actually likes them.

[Deleted]

It works the other way around too. Many people who eat at restaurants dont appreciate being sexually harassed by their servers as they come over and serve your food in super low cut tops (an effort to make men give bigger tips) with their giant boobs hanging out and wearing skirts so short their ass cheeks show when they bend over to pick stuff up. If I want to see that kind of crap, Id go to a nudie bar.

Are you really claiming that if a woman is scantily clad around you that it's sexual harassment?

[Collegeguy]

Perhaps not, who knows. Whether it's "legally" this or that isn't really relevant though. Servers should not be in a position where they are encouraged to flirt with patrons. That isn't okay, morally. People should not be put in that position.

Imagine you worked caring for old people, but the job was tip based and you were living on the poverty line, and old people were tipping more if... I dunno, you gave them a bit of a feel when you were showering them or helping them to the toilet. Imagine if your wage was such that in order to feed your family or pay your rent, you were being incentivised to do that kind of thing in order to get tips from them. Even if it was legally okay, morally it is not. People should not be put in that position.

Mislabeling this as sexual harassment though makes it a charade in pity and lies for special privilege.

If they want higher wages, ya so does everyone else right now with the inflation but label it correctly. Washington is working on that.

[Holofernes]

actual in psychology department of my university there was a approach to the tip- question. it came out, that women wearing red cloth and makeup became more and higher tips then while the same women wearing neutral cloth and no makeup.

So women have a economic interest in beeing attractive (thats something completely new to the world, i know)

[tratra]

Yep, because people on the poverty line can just change jobs like that. It's no problem at all. If you quit your job because of harrassment and have no experience or qualifications outside of resturaunt work it's dead easy to just go get another job or just magic up the money to go to college / uni. Unemployment isn't even a real thing, it's only lazy people who can't be bothered to work, right?

/sarcasm.

Dude you don't get it do you? They just want more and more. If you are on poverty well you'll have to do the job. If you don't wanna do the job, change or go homeless or whatever.
Did you even read the article? That chick is saying she wants to make a career as a waitress? Thats not a career, she has to realize that she will be in the bottom for the rest of her imaginary career and she will have to suck up with it.

And you can change job just as easy, been there done that and I've been a waiter before as well cause I wasn't a lazy person that wanted to skim money off his family while playing wow. Thats why I dont have 3000 posts on mmo-champion /farewell.

[Silverblade Paladin]

Problem is, that's usually not pleasant for the servers, being forced to have to flirt with people for more money. Kind of makes you feel like a lady of the night. Also it makes the system kind of broken, since it seems that male servers flirting with female patrons doesn't seem to affect their tips as much as the reverse. Maybe there's something about the average male in there or maybe it's just that dudes tend to be richer for a variety of reasons so have more money to throw at a server. Either way, it means that dudes are earning less, and the ladies are having to do something really gross and unpleasant that no one should have to do, to max their earning potential.

As if any whore that flirts with people to gain more money has any moral conscience about it.

[Speaknoevil]

As if any whore that flirts with people to gain more money has any moral conscience about it.

What an amusing use of the word "moral."

[Orlong]

Are you really claiming that if a woman is scantily clad around you that it's sexual harassment?

Yes. Tits and ass are only to be shown in the shower or nudie bar. NOT when Im trying to enjoy a dinner

[Deleted]

Yes. Tits and ass are only to be shown in the shower or nudie bar. NOT when Im trying to enjoy a dinner

Why are you peering into other peoples showers? Or do you mean your own tits and ass?

[Wildtree]

Why are you peering into other peoples showers? Or do you mean your own tits and ass?

Well, one thing's for sure....
he better never travel to Munich....... Cause he might see this in many restaurants there....

[Anonymous1038853]

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm
http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/subminimumwage.htm
http://rocunited.org/wp-content/uplo...t-Industry.pdf

It's a little disingenuous to claim that sub-minimum wage employees sometimes earn only $2.13 per hour. There's no legal precedent for that. Employers are expected to compensate for shortcomings below the federal minimum wage, as needed. Either by employer supplement or customer gratuity, a given employee should be earning at least the federal minimum wage by law. This actually means that these jobs are financially superior to standard minimum wage, because gratuity opens the door for greater potential earnings.

The intention of sub-minimum wage is to prevent the loss of employment opportunities for any individuals to which it applies. Some examples include youth employees, those who receive full gratuities, or the physically impaired (who might not be able to earn above a certain threshold without losing financial aid benefits, for example). Without a fair bit of scrutiny, it's hard to see this as inherently negative. It seems that in an effort to fight sub-minimum wage as it currently stands (which I will reiterate, is arguably superior to standard minimum wage by way of potential and baseline earnings) sexual harassment has been alluded to as a direct consequence (IE: The thread's title).

This reeks of political propaganda, honestly. I took a brief look over their cited study, and it doesn't seem particularly credible. There is absolutely no documentation about their selection methodology, or survey distribution methodology (IE: Voluntary or mandated). These are extremely relevant when assessing the validity of data, because of the potential for selection bias. Even if we acknowledge no other flaw (of which there are many), this alone makes their entire survey inherently meaningless. We don't know how they selected participants, we only know how many they selected.

They allude to previous surveys (which were more substantial) which stated that "above ten percent" of those surveyed experienced or witnessed sexual harassment. The pragmatic should read this as approximately ten percent, since the researchers then reveal a predisposition to higher numbers going into the study. They count acts such as comments about gender, sexually suggestive looks, and leaning over as instances of sexual harassment. The ambiguity here is ridiculous. Is it really sexual harassment if someone looks at you in a manner you don't consent to? How can we be sure that a given nondescript comment about one's gender is actually an instance of harassment? They also emphasize that many of those surveyed didn't even consider their experiences to be in line with sexual harassment.

I could also note that their findings allude to relatively equal outcomes for both men and women, and that there doesn't appear to be a significant difference between those under sub-minimum wage and standard wage. But it's extremely difficult to make those suppositions because their graphical metrics are all based on a Total Sexual Harassment Index of their own design, which is not outlined in any mathematical detail. Not to mention they label their graphs as a mean total of that aforementioned value, with greatly varying scales. As if the TSHI wasn't ambiguous enough. I mean, there's so many grievous problems with this study, the whole thing is very reminiscent of the "1 in 4" factoid.

While I welcome anyone to contradict these points, I won't be wasting additional time further scrutinizing the study.

[Orlong]

Well, one thing's for sure....
he better never travel to Munich....... Cause he might see this in many restaurants there....

And when people look at the cleavage, then they bitch and moan about being looked at as a sex object. smh That is obscene to dress like that as someone who is serving FOOD. Its only purpose is to increase either business or in the US, tips

[Deleted]

And when people look at the cleavage, then they bitch and moan about being looked at as a sex object. smh That is obscene to dress like that as someone who is serving FOOD. Its only purpose is to increase either business or in the US, tips

Or maybe not all women have a hive mind and enjoy showing off what they have.

[Deleted]

I'm hoping nobody in this thread is thinking that if it happens to men as well, it somehow invalidates the thread, and makes it all right. The point of the thread isn't that it happens to women. The point of the thread is that it happens.