Turkey: No F16s From Our Bases but Drones Okay

[Deleted]

If you declare Turkey as enemy (which you have no reason to do so), we are gonna basically ally with Russia & China, effectively block USA's power projection in the region. Two strongest country in the region is Iran and Turkey and then Syria. Imagine what happens if you isolate Turkey.

Do you honestly believe you could easily ally with both of them and that they would actually come to your aid risking an open war? Both of them aren't even friends with one another for the most part and you wouldn't be on par with them the very best you could hope for would be an North Korean esque vassal-ship where Russia or China tells you to jump and you do so frantically before even asking how high.

[lifebinderx]

Sorry but I can not see the point. An artificial terrorrist group called ISIS which is financed by USA, armed by USA and lead by USA is not USA's enemy, and Turkey has to open their military basis to USA cause USA wanna make a show "oh guys you see how we kick badass ppl with our technology and bring peace to the region". What do they put in potato chips in the states? I think that is the side effect leading that most ppl believe in what they see in the news....

[Valerean]

Erdogan is an arrogant, puffed-up little shit who is following in the region's time-honored tradition of attempting to set himself up as the Middle East's new strongman. The Turks deserve a hell of a lot better than him.

[Deleted]

Erdogan is an arrogant, puffed-up little shit who is following in the region's time-honored tradition of attempting to set himself up as the Middle East's new strongman. The Turks deserve a hell of a lot better than him.

The Turks voted for him, the Turks support him, the Turks want him.

[Mavett]

Sorry but I can not see the point. An artificial terrorrist group called ISIS which is financed by USA, armed by USA and lead by USA is not USA's enemy, and Turkey has to open their military basis to USA cause USA wanna make a show "oh guys you see how we kick badass ppl with our technology and bring peace to the region". What do they put in potato chips in the states? I think that is the side effect leading that most ppl believe in what they see in the news....

[Valerean]

The Turks voted for him, the Turks support him, the Turks want him.

Sad, but true.

Hopefully he'll get voted out in a couple of years, dependent on the extent that he's amended their constitution...

[Kuntantee]

Do you honestly believe you could easily ally with both of them and that they would actually come to your aid risking an open war? Both of them aren't even friends with one another for the most part and you wouldn't be on par with them the very best you could hope for would be an North Korean esque vassal-ship where Russia or China tells you to jump and you do so frantically before even asking how high.

Who needs to be friends? We are talking about international politics. It's all about affiliations. In case of isolation of Turkey by West, we will simply look for another affiliation. We do not have any particular problems with Russia, I do not see how this can not happen. Also, I am not sure how this could risk an open war...Care to elaborate? You see, Turkey is not some small country like North Korea. Comparing Turkey with North Korea is ridiculous. Btw, if there is one country who can not risk an open war, it's USA. You simply have too much to lose in a conventional warfare with a full-fledged army.

[Deleted]

Turkey is in a difficult situation though.
On one side they are facing ISIL and on the other they are confronted with their other enemy, the Kurds.

It's a no-win situation for them if you ask me.

[Kuntantee]

The Turks voted for him, the Turks support him, the Turks want him.

Turkish elections are rigged and due to 10% threshold to enter parliament, their political power is much more than worth of their votes. This is a well-known flaw in election system that is exploited by many politicians. There are more people against Erdogan than those who support him. But yes, we should elect better leaders.

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Turkey is in a difficult situation though.
On one side they are facing ISIL and on the other they are confronted with their other enemy, the Kurds.

It's a no-win situation for them if you ask me.

the Kurds that you are referring to are basically Kurdish terrorists. Btw, finally, someone understands it...Does it require a massive mental power?

Another thing worth of noting is that most civilians left Kobani and it's basically Syrian-wing of PKK vs ISIS.

[madokbro]

I don't remember which forum I've read this, but I was keeping it for threads like this. I would like to copy/paste.

"I'm using that advice, and it doesn't help me form an opinion anymore... Now it all makes me wanna go "AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!" grabbing my head. And I realize how horribly mindf**king the situation is. So I'm trying to summarize to myself in simple words :

*KOBANE BATTLE AND TURKEY*
- IS (terrorists) is attacking Kobane
- Kobane is defended by YPG (terrorists) and some militias of locals that may or may not be related to YPG
- For Turkey, it's terro vs terro, so entering would favour one terro side.
- But both terros hate Turkey already.
- So Turkey stays out of the fight
- Plus, The YPG, Assad, and IS tell Turkey to stay out or face attacks for meddling into Syria
- So Turkey replies "Well, it's not like I wanted help any of you, f**ktards"

*TURKEY AND THE HUMAN MANAGEMENT*
- Meanwhile, Turkey lets tens of thousands civilians pass the border and got to safety.
- Those refugees are Kurds
- So yeah, it's kinda dumb to say "OMG, Turks let people die !!11"
- Yet Turkey doesn't appear very warm to the refugees
- Or it's the refugees behaving like ungrateful brats => tear gas
- Care packages and medical help to refugees : on the radio, the french reporters went to a Turkish hospital, full of refugees AND of YPG wounded fighters that the Turkish border guards let pass
- Doctors are turks and kurds
- But one doctor mentions that ISIS wounded fighters are also being treated in "different hospitals"... Why ? IMHO, IS wounded should be arrested on the spot. yet I doubt Turkish authorities are doing that... IS supporters clashing with Kurds, INSIDE Turkish cities

*TURKEY AND THE "WORLD" (AKA "THE WEST", AKA "THE EU AND USA")*
- Erdogan says a ground operation is needed
- Yet he poses conditions such as "everyone with us" and "Main target is Assad, not ISIS"
- But the "West" wants Turkey to be against ISIS first, Assad later
- Conflict of goals and opinions, Turkey's goals are different from the coalition goals => Locked situation

*ISIS*
- Worldwide recognized threat
- No one's friend
- Strong and steady
- Gaining ground
- Beheading people
- Slaughtering
- Laughing at the Coalition
- May not have short-term goals inside Turkey, ATM wants to carve a state in Syria and Iraq
- Genocidal horde on religious grounds
- Want to impose oppressive archaic society first in muslims countries, then, the whole world
- Erdogan's role shady (Islamist party = same goals as ISIS or rivals ? Conflicting informations switching between support and opposition)

*THE YPG*
- Also known as a side of PKK
- PKK is terrorists
- PKK warned Turkey not to intervene
- Yet MPs of the party protest Turkey's inaction (and violence in Turkish cities)
- Certainly a divided party between "Turkey stay out" and "We should maybe consider a deal and renounce violence against Turkey, they are not insane genocidal as we try to portray them to the world"
- They lie a lot (I've spotted many contradictions and agendas). While I value Kurds in Iraq and think they are important allies and assets and are morally "better" than the IS, I feel that their bros in Syria try to manipulate outside powers into supporting them...

*CONCLUSIONS*
- Everyone pisses me off
- ISIS are the most evil pieces of sh-it I've ever seen
- Turkey has good reasons not to move yet
- But Erdogan also sounding like a troll, putting tanks on the border for show, calling for a ground operation while sounding like "anybody but us"
- Kurds are trying to get support, that's understandable, but threatening Turkey
- Threatening and requesting help at the same time, talk about split personality
- Kurds playing victim card while majority of Kobane civilians are on the Turkish side of the border
- "World" coalition look like confused idiots, dropping bombs (GOOD) but not enough (BAD) and not very wisely choosing objectives (BAD)

*MAIN CONCLUSION*

The IS is winning strategical, tactical and PR (as in, media visibility, "We're coming for you, no one can stop us!") points (and could gain resources, assets and depth to mount attacks inside Iraq), and the "coalition" (put Turkey and the Kurds in it too) are wasting time bickering around."

[Deleted]

Kurds are the gypsies of the middle east so no wonder why none (be it Arab/Turk or Persian) wants something to do with them.
(Im not from Turkey btw)

[Deleted]

This would've been a nice time to test the JFS that's (still) in development.

[TheBeardedOne]

Drones can be armed. I thought this was common knowledge

Yeah and you have been killing brown men and families for years and have the nerve to call them the terrorists.........

[Orly]

Yeah and you have been killing brown men and families for years and have the nerve to call them the terrorists.........

Who, except americans, still see america as something else other than the world's terrorists? It's the only country in the last decade that actively seeks out wars to fight in.

[Deleted]

Turkey is a corrupt place. They're not entirely against ISIS nor are they for them. They're against the Kurds, having commited genocide against them before. They definetly don't care for human rights, that considered. They barely have a democracy, made evident after all the debacle this year.

This confuses me the most since they are also under threat from ISIS who "lol claims" territories even beyond Turkey up to the Vatican.
I mean, is the Islamic sense of brotherhood so strong that they have doubts about defending their country?

[TheBeardedOne]

Who, except americans, still see america as something else other than the world's terrorists? It's the only country in the last decade that actively seeks out wars to fight in.

They seem to have an illogical notion that they are right

[Orly]

This confuses me the most since they are also under threat from ISIS who "lol claims" territories even beyond Turkey up to the Vatican.
I mean, is the Islamic sense of brotherhood so strong that they have doubts about defending their country?

Defend their country from what?

Omg, a country that thinks twice before jumping head-on in a war! Heaven forbid

[Notchris]

This confuses me the most since they are also under threat from ISIS who "lol claims" territories even beyond Turkey up to the Vatican.
I mean, is the Islamic sense of brotherhood so strong that they have doubts about defending their country?

Well, the Turkish military can/will stomp the piss out of ISIS in an open-war. So it's not like ISIS is ever going to realistically take Turkey.
ISIS could still make life absolutely miserable though. With bombings, ambushes, etc.

But they're not taking the country.

[Ghostpanther]

Wonder what their reaction would be if the US took the stance " Fine, no use of your airfields, no trade rights or aid from us ".

[Wilian]

Kurds are the gypsies of the middle east so no wonder why none (be it Arab/Turk or Persian) wants something to do with them.
(Im not from Turkey btw)

No, Kurds are bros of Middle East that have been oppressed time and time again in their ancestral lands by other, far more savage and ruthless people.