Not Happy With Mistweavers :(

[apepi]

It's not like the spec is so broken that it can't heal 5 mans... we're talking about arenas, RBGs, and raids, things that don't exist while leveling.

You have never pvped at lower levels? And not getting a critical stat until late game can be very detrimental to a spec. I rember some classes were just god aweful with out masteries. We need to learn from our mistakes.

[Deleted]

I just did the 2nd mythic raid as MW and I still enjoyed myself and the spec, despite the fact I made a few mistakes, and also that my laptop (which is thankfully getting fixed) fucked out after about 3 bosses and I had 5 fps for the rest of the raid which was horrific.

When jade mists procs (which is rare as hell) it feels like christmas, and I am sure that in WoD once we can get our hands on some MS, it'll feel much nicer.

As it was said before, unless I'm a hindrance to my raid (and we are casual, so unlikely to happen) I will continue playing MW for t17. I very much enjoy the pre-emptive aspect of the healing - working somewhat like disc, except it feels a lot more like the planning is in the execution - aligning and pooling resources to use at specific times. And if everything *were* to go to pot, at least my guild know I'm a more than competent priest, so all is well. :P

Here's a log if anyone's interested in a looksee. Bearing in mind I'm a bit new to MW, my gear isn't perfect, and the aforementioned laptop issues and FPS drop of horror after Norushen. So don't crack down on me too hard!

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...1&type=healing

For some reason Malkorok isn't there and I didn't heal on garrosh


edit: also lol at me attempting to dps the add in my test on norushen while in serpent stance and being confused and the npcs almost dying

[Spotnick]

Actually, you might want to fistweave under bloodlust, that is probably the best part of any raid encounter where you don't gimp yourself too much by doing it and you actually help the dps for real.

[Volibear]

You have never pvped at lower levels? And not getting a critical stat until late game can be very detrimental to a spec. I rember some classes were just god aweful with out masteries. We need to learn from our mistakes.

He didn't mention ANYTHING about lower levels.

Classes aren't balanced around lower levels, because it's not really relevant content.

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Actually, you might want to fistweave under bloodlust, that is probably the best part of any raid encounter where you don't gimp yourself too much by doing it and you actually help the dps for real.

And lust is quite often at the start of a fight, so it's a great time to build mana tea stacks.

[Totaltotemic]

Honestly, I don't really put much stock in anyone that would form conclusions about how a spec must be at max level based on lower level experiences. Anyone that's ever played at max level for more than a couple of months knows that the development team couldn't care less about the leveling process. The last time they sunk a ton of time into improving the leveling process and how classes felt while leveling we ended up with the worst max-level expansion in WoW's history. They ignore non-max level (and that includes level 90 in 6.0) design because they're bad enough at balancing things for max level when they have 8 months to do so, they don't have time to care about levels that people will bypass in a matter of hours.

It's like everyone forgot what expansions are like. The former max level is totally broken (if people think this time around is silly they probably didn't see post-armor pen removal at the end of WotLK), all PvE content is nerfed to oblivion, PvP is a complete and utter mess (but season always ends on patch day so no one cares much), and nothing ever correlates to the new max level especially when new stats are invented (all stats from vanilla to BC, armor pen from BC to WotLK, mastery from WotLK to Cata, only MoP didn't have entirely new stats added/removed). Leveling is always a total mess (even more so since MoP started locking abilities behind specs, like WW basically does zero damage until getting RSK/TEB both at level 56 for some stupid reason), and all theorycrafters ditch the current level because they've all been working on beta information for 6+ months.

This is what happens literally every single time. It's the 5th go-around now, and people have become exceedingly efficient at whining about it.

[cqwrteur]

Honestly, I don't really put much stock in anyone that would form conclusions about how a spec must be at max level based on lower level experiences. Anyone that's ever played at max level for more than a couple of months knows that the development team couldn't care less about the leveling process. The last time they sunk a ton of time into improving the leveling process and how classes felt while leveling we ended up with the worst max-level expansion in WoW's history. They ignore non-max level (and that includes level 90 in 6.0) design because they're bad enough at balancing things for max level when they have 8 months to do so, they don't have time to care about levels that people will bypass in a matter of hours.

It's like everyone forgot what expansions are like. The former max level is totally broken (if people think this time around is silly they probably didn't see post-armor pen removal at the end of WotLK), all PvE content is nerfed to oblivion, PvP is a complete and utter mess (but season always ends on patch day so no one cares much), and nothing ever correlates to the new max level especially when new stats are invented (all stats from vanilla to BC, armor pen from BC to WotLK, mastery from WotLK to Cata, only MoP didn't have entirely new stats added/removed). Leveling is always a total mess (even more so since MoP started locking abilities behind specs, like WW basically does zero damage until getting RSK/TEB both at level 56 for some stupid reason), and all theorycrafters ditch the current level because they've all been working on beta information for 6+ months.

This is what happens literally every single time. It's the 5th go-around now, and people have become exceedingly efficient at whining about it.

But:
One uplift, 3 gcd in average (the first 2 gcd for 2 chi, the last cast uplift) , 8% mana (2 chi is about 8% mana), 1.5 casting time. 165% Spell power (6 targets) , 165% * 6 = 990%. 1 gcd 330% Spell power .
One holy nova, 1 gcd, 1.6% mana, no casting time, 112.5% Spell power (5 targets). 112.5% * 5 = 562.5 % . 1 gcd 562.5% Spell power .

And 30% mastery in WOD 6.0 is even worse than 10% mastery in last version.

I don't think anyone will have the ability to use a casting, 330% sp(with 10% healing done of the bad mastery Gots) to compete with a instant, 562.5% sp (with 30% healing done of absorbing mastery). Math tells us the gap between MW and Disc Priest is still so big at LV 100.

Yes, the pool of Mists is good talent, but it can't help you in the sucks problem that ReM loses easily when the whole group at a very low hp at all (especially in 5 man).

Math could always tell us the truth.

[Totaltotemic]

AV isn't an RBG and Geodew already told you that ignoring the spells that generated the chi for Uplift doesn't make sense, you don't just cast Uplift every 4.5 seconds. That aside, yes, Disc is OP, you could compare literally every healer to Disc and come to the same conclusion.

GotS is better in WoD than in 5.4, you have absolutely no basis for saying the opposite. Its spellpower coefficient and some of its scalars were buffed and its mechanics were improved. There is absolutely no way that it is worse.

There also isn't any content in the game designed around the assumption that people are dying every 5 seconds. Suggesting that there's even a moment of thought put into balancing 40 person BGs is ridiculous, it's been this way for literally a decade. I don't know how many times people have to say that before you stop bringing up AV as if anything is balanced around that.

[cqwrteur]

I am sorry for sucks. I shouldn't talk about it

Why 30% of mastery could only do 10% of healing done now?
Is that the reason "Glyph of Enduring Healing Sphere" removed?

[Daws001]

After more time with the spec, and after playing with all the healers, I'm warming up to the MW changes. It does feel clunkier, I miss SM not generating chi, our shorter GCD, blah blah blah, but I'm also looking forward to how the spec will feel at 100. Looks like it will handle better with more multi-strike and Pool of Mists.

Also, try as I might, the other healers just feel boring after awhile :/

[Tradu]

Honestly, I don't really put much stock in anyone that would form conclusions about how a spec must be at max level based on lower level experiences. Anyone that's ever played at max level for more than a couple of months knows that the development team couldn't care less about the leveling process. The last time they sunk a ton of time into improving the leveling process and how classes felt while leveling we ended up with the worst max-level expansion in WoW's history. They ignore non-max level (and that includes level 90 in 6.0) design because they're bad enough at balancing things for max level when they have 8 months to do so, they don't have time to care about levels that people will bypass in a matter of hours.

Detonate Chi is a perfect example of that. Detonate Chi is learned at 64(because it's the "same" spell as old Healing Sphere). When does it start to do ANYTHING other than cost mana and a GCD? At 80, once you get mastery.

[Kuruption]

Detonate Chi is a perfect example of that. Detonate Chi is learned at 64(because it's the "same" spell as old Healing Sphere). When does it start to do ANYTHING other than cost mana and a GCD? At 80, once you get mastery.

It still doesn't do anything other than cost mana and a GCD at 100 (or at least feels like nothing happens).

[Tradu]

It still doesn't do anything other than cost mana and a GCD at 100 (or at least feels like nothing happens).

That's true, of course. But before 80 it does nothing even in a perfect situation(which... doens't even exist at that level), whereas it does have the possibility of actually doing a little bit of healing at 80+

[Spotnick]

It's because they just reused the spell slot of Healing Sphere, but I admit there is a bit of a QA issue there.

I think the other one I know is paladins where you get holy power but no way to spend it until a couple of levels higher.

[Tradu]

It's because they just reused the spell slot of Healing Sphere, but I admit there is a bit of a QA issue there.

I think the other one I know is paladins where you get holy power but no way to spend it until a couple of levels higher.

Yeah, Crusader Strike at level 1, Word of Glory at ~20(I think) and Templar's Verdict for picking Ret(so 15). That's horrible QA, honestly. Did nobody think "Hey, we're removing the Healing Sphere spell and replacing it with something that interacts with something only spawned by that spell, a bad glyph and mastery... maybe we should not put it almost 20 levels before mastery is unlocked?"

[Temptrez]

On Most Testing i have done in WoD i have been about half of a dps with about half the healing maybe a bit more in some cases depending on the boss etc stakced or not so roughly i would say about 60-75 % of the heals and 50 % of the dmg of a pure of the respective classes i really don't think they should be more then that its a niche play style can't be anything else or everyone will just stack them

[Geodew]

Yes, the pool of Mists is good talent, but it can't help you in the sucks problem that ReM loses easily when the whole group at a very low hp at all (especially in 5 man).

5 man? Yeah, so don't take PoM in 5man. That's already been said. CE gives you great single-target healing on anyone who's spread. It's like dumping the healing of an entire Uplift into one person if you can get them to eat some of the orbs (which they will either by standing there for 15s or moving).

Math could always tell us the truth.

Only if you do it correctly (which you're not, as we already pointed out) and draw logical conclusions from it as opposed to a non-sequitur or using it as a strawman.

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I am sorry for sucks. I shouldn't talk about it

No, it's fine, just don't post extremely rough estimations as if they're truth :P

Why 30% of mastery could only do 10% of healing done now?
Is that the reason "Glyph of Enduring Healing Sphere" removed?

Undetuned + bad pickup rate

[Laringar]

It's not like the spec is so broken that it can't heal 5 mans... we're talking about arenas, RBGs, and raids, things that don't exist while leveling.

As someone that spent this evening levelling 13-42... it kind of IS that broken.

Fistweaving is literally impossible, it can't output more healing than the last mob of a trash pack, especially with having a full 1.5s gcd on Jab. I levelled fistweaving during pandaria, and was completely able to keep up with damage that way, blackout kick had AoE, and I could toss off some extra heals when needed.

Now? I can barely even keep up with damage in Serpent Stance, and that's in full BoAs. Surging mist hits for 400 health at L42. My health pool is 6k. An tank has about 8k right now. A spell that invokes a 1.5 second GCD, heals for ONLY 5 PERCENT OF THE TANKS HEALTH. If anyone but the tank is taking damage, someone is going to die, and that's all there is to it. Enveloping is giving me a little more, 2.2k over 6 sec, but that only helps so much. I have no cooldowns that I can hit for dire situations, no uplift to heal the group, just an incredibly limited toolkit that only slightly outpaces normal mob damage. (Sure, I'm about to get SCK, but that's not going to solve my problems.) You should get the tools you need BEFORE you've been tearing your hair out over not having them.

And yes, I realize that low level isn't where balance focus is aimed. But this is the part of the game people draw their conclusions on "would I like to play this class?" from, and as much as we all like to think of raiding as the true focus of WoW, a significant % of people never even hit the level cap. Who's going to stick with a class that's so frustrating to play, even when you have the best gear possible for the level?

(Disclosure: Part of the inspiration for the post was that right before it, I got yelled at the entire way through a Dire Maul West run for poor healing, even though I was spamming heals as hard as I could. So yes, there's a little bit of venting going on here. I'm not going to say I'm a great healer, but it shouldn't take a great healer to be successful in a L40 instance.)

[Totaltotemic]

My first thought was "are you sure you had Statue down? Because Soothing literally does double the HPS as Surging with Enveloping on the target if you factor in the Staute Soothing."

Then I looked up what level you actually get the JSS. It turns out you don't get it until 70.

That seems incredibly stupid now that you have no other means to heal in Crane and Soothing was rebalanced to have a much larger portion of the healing. It should probably be like level 20 or something.

[Laringar]

Exactly. I understand Surging being weaker later, when you have your full toolkit. But if anything, heals should be overpowered at low levels, to help new healers get used to the mechanics of it.

[Tradu]

They just need to go through every ability in the game and put it at a more sensible level. There's way too many that are in really odd places(especially when comparing classes), like Elemental getting to go full on Sith Lord at 20-something while most other classes don't get any real AoE until TBC/WotLK content. And then there's the ones that just straight up make no sense(Detonate Chi before it has any use)