Everybody should change to Troll right now?

[Trubo]

(Pve) Going by class utility, blood elf aoe silence is of course great on some fights. Especially since we don't have disrupting shout anymore.

Since you can no longer use goblin gliders in raids, Goblin Rocket jump is one of the few fall damage protections left in game. And while you rarely need it, it does give a quick movement boost. Mobile banking too is convenient.

Worgen's darkflight is of course, still amazing.

Human trinket has its uses.

Dwarf has its, albeit nerfed, damage reduction CD.

Nerfed? Isn't it still 10% in addition to now being a dispel-all button instead of just poison, disease and bleeds?

[Deleted]

Race doesn't matter, the differences are negligible. Play what you want to play.

This doesn't get said often enough aparently.

I don't know know whether the difference is negligible, it seems like enough people choose certain races, because of their bonuses.

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I care about min/maxing and race doesn't matter. The only questionable races are Undead and Human.

So race does matter then.

[Notshauna]

I don't know know whether the difference is negligible, it seems like enough people choose certain races, because of their bonuses.

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So race does matter then.

It doesn't matter from a min-max stand point as all the races are relatively balanced, it can matter for a play style stand point or an aesthetic stand point but it's not like rolling Undead or Human is going to make you noticeably weaker than any other race.

[Deleted]

It doesn't matter from a min-max stand point as all the races are relatively balanced, it can matter for a play style stand point or an aesthetic stand point but it's not like rolling Undead or Human is going to make you noticeably weaker than any other race.

No, it's gonna make you stronger right? I mean I admit, I'm not a big PvPer, but from what I heard from the human and undead racials, especially EMFH is that it is a significant advantage, or is that not true? Is it not true anymore that EMFH basically gives you an additional trinket effect?

[Krazzorx]

Nerfed? Isn't it still 10% in addition to now being a dispel-all button instead of just poison, disease and bleeds?

It's now only physical damage reduction I believe. http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=20594

Still useful, especially for tanks, but obviously not a ton of raid physical damage.

And obviously dispell mechanic great where it applies.

[mauserr]

Racials make no difference unless you are going for server 1st in PvE, or for rank 1 in PvP. If you are not doing any of those 2 things then racials are irrelevant to you.

It doesn't matter. Not for PvE, at least. It's just personal preference now. I can't speak for PvP because from what I can remember the human race gave you a free trinket, not sure how it is now, but for PvE it's irrelevant.

You just won't see the difference between races anymore when it comes to real, human performance. Sims may say that you will get 200-400 dps more but these are sims.

[Charge me Doctor]

Isn't it just ~300 dps difference? I guess you can lose all your advantage just because you fucked up berserk timing thanks to some boss mechanic. Not worth it definitely

[Marrilaife]

Still useful, especially for tanks, but obviously not a ton of raid physical damage.

We'll see in WOD, but in MOP there were a few bosses with physical aoe damage, can't remember which exactly, I think Jikun was one of them.

[CollisionTD]

I don't know know whether the difference is negligible, it seems like enough people choose certain races, because of their bonuses.

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So race does matter then.

Avoiding 2 races out of the 13 that you can pick from is a far cry from how races were balanced previously.

[Gurg]

I would say...

Orcs because them shoulders.

^ THIS...

OT: To the people saying "min/maxing matters go troll cuz NUMBAHS" you need to remember that they may sim the best (patchwerk stand still fight) but those numbers assume you play absolutely perfectly.
If you use your troll raicial wrong once(which it is very possible to do), just ONCE during an hour long fight and guess what, you just picked the wrong race cuz now you aren't gonna do better than any of the others. That's literally how close the races sim against each other. Play what you like looking at, or because of the 'niche' racials (escape artist, EMFH, etc)

.... and THIS! ^

So its pretty much down to are you PvP or PvE, do you want to min/max, do you want to have on demand button, yet another button to press and risk that you can underperform or you want a passive which you can forget about. im personally PvE progression player whos not in top 10 guilds so those numbers are quite neglectable for me so im going for the policy "i smash stuff and i look good while doing so." BUT as for PvP i would say Human/Undead/Gnome for extra CC breaks or even Dwarf for debuff removal.

[Krazzorx]

We'll see in WOD, but in MOP there were a few bosses with physical aoe damage, can't remember which exactly, I think Jikun was one of them.

I looked it up and going through the dungeon journal here are the bosses I noticed with physical damage or dispellable effects:

Butcher's gushing wound. I don't believe it can be removed as that might break the fight.

Twin Ogron's whirlwind possibly.

Kor'agh's expel fire can be dispelled but there doesn't seem to be much benefit of doing so?

Imperator's transition adds cast slow which can be dispelled.

Beast Lord Darmac you should be able to remove that bleed and the conflagrate on mythic, while a healer can dispell it, the faster the better so would probably be a good idea to self-dispell.

Kromog's fist pound that knocks you up is physical damage, and ofc warriors are one of the few classes who can survive the fall.

Hans and Franz, in addition to pumping you up, have plenty of physical damage attacks.

Blackhand has lots of physical damage.

So yes there is plenty of physical effects Stoneform works on. More than I initially thought.

[Deleted]

Tauren master race!

[kiaranqilue]

Tauren master race!

So true, so true! I luve female cows!!!!!!

[Murg]

Wow, dem wannabe proplayers. It is _not_ measurable. Since DPS difference is so low, the main difference between races now is utility, and you can't measure utility.

There is also a margin of simulation dispersion, even with 100k iterations, which is not far from simulated dps difference.

So, before making stupid absolution claims, learn more 'bout the subject.

upd: you know, this stuff really bugs me. People are so ignorant about min/maxing and yet, suddenly, everybody is "hardcore". You know what else will give you 200 dps difference, or even more? Freaking comfortableness of your chair, amount of alcohol in your blood (if you had a drink 24 hours before the raid - you are not min/maxing). UI ffs, look at your UI, it's almost everytime grossly inefficient. Your mood in the raid can swing you into mistakes that will cost you A LOT more than that stupid 200 dps. So please, please, don's speak of min/maxing, because you don't know shit about it.

Just had to post in response to this, some people are furious about this guys interpretation on how numbers work, of which I fear mine is similar. I was under the impression that numbers can add up to or be taken away from each other, that the 40-60k dps we will all be doing can be broken down into 1's, and even further (Man, numbers are truly great aren't they? I digress. ). Anyways, it seems to stand to reason that if any part of those numbers is made less, the whole is made less, is this correct? I will proceed with the assumption it is.

Now you say:

You know what else will give you 200 dps difference, or even more? Freaking comfortableness of your chair, amount of alcohol in your blood (if you had a drink 24 hours before the raid - you are not min/maxing). UI ffs, look at your UI, it's almost everytime grossly inefficient. Your mood in the raid can swing you into mistakes that will cost you A LOT more than that stupid 200 dps. So please, please, don's speak of min/maxing, because you don't know shit about it.

Which I totally agree with! Most of those statements are factual! (Maybe not that hyperbolic part at the end about him "not knowing shit", seems more opinion, anyways, I digress again!) Many of those things will make a larger difference than what race you choose.

But I feel you forget one thing, and that is, none of those factors are mutually exclusive.

He can be drunk or sober while being the highest simmed race, on a bucket or a throne, it makes no difference. However, with the highest simmed race, used optimally(and let's not nitpick here, we will assume it IS used optimally. I mean, you'd have to be some kind of asshole to start a fight over something only tangentially related to a posters question, right?), his baseline during any of those given situations will be higher. And building on my assumption earlier that numbers made less as a part means numbers less as a whole, I will expand that to assume that numbers added to a part will add to that number as a whole.

Translated from theory this means: A race that is simmed higher will perform higher in sims than a race that is simmed lower will under otherwise identical and optimal circumstances. and seeing as how this person seems like someone who would gear using sims, it would follow that a valid answer to his question would look more like some form of: " Trolls sim highest, but that doesn't mean everything.", and less like: "I'm going to spew hate all over you for some apparent reason."

Have I erred in my logic?


TL;DR: Many factors of min/maxing aren't mutually exclusive, and the soul of min/maxing is "everything counts". So, everything counts. Less hate, more numbers and discussion, sorry in advance.

[tru]

Race does matter.

Take a look at Gnomes for example, Escape Artist is a 1min root breaker, for a class like Warrior, that DOES matter.

because you need 100% uptime on a rootbreaker ? you need it ALL the time to make any other options seem a joke?
because ALL OF THOSE ROOTS YOU NEED TO BREAK eh
besides gnome atk animation for 2h is fkin horrendous

not every class has a rooting ability
and
its not common at all that you are rooted in pve
so please tell us how much of that root breaking is needed?