Ret, Fury, Feral and Rogue looking dominant?

[Deleted]

Feral beats DK in duel
Retri beats DK in duel
Feral beats retri in duel
Fury loses to all of previous

Logic: Feral is best melee, also has best mobility.

Except ret doesn't beat dk in duel. Not unholy that is.
I'd say it's like unholy dk = feral > ret > frost dk

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Duels, the pinnacle of PvP balance. Sadly right though for the wrong reasons.

Duels, wpvp and random 1v1 encounters in bgs are what makes pvp fun. To dispatch a strong opponent in a pure 1v1 test of skill is the best thing about pvp, not facerolling in an arena or rbg with an army of healers and supporters on you, that's not skill nor is it satisfying.

[redderz1]

After an 18 month layoff I thought I'd have a go at this game again on my Mage.

Having serious trouble adapting to not being able to move and cast in PvP (I play a fire Mage). Melee seem to have so many gap closers I cant get them off me (for very long at least). Combined with the fact that hardcasting in that situation is suicide, and I have very little self healing to save me...I just kind of fall over and die.

Is this an L2P situation, or is melee really the way to go for WoD?

I do have a 90 rogue alt, and an 80 Druid alt I can call upon for WoD if need be. Also a level 90 Lock, but I might have the same problem there as the mage...

Are you being serious? Fire is one of the caster specs that gets to move and cast in WoD and has a lot of kiting tools. I play rogue, fire mage, shadowpriest and lock. Fire has so many tools at 100 in WoD you really shouldn't be having any trouble with rogues.

Scorch increases movement speed by <30%

Blastwave is a ranged slow (which also does massive damage).

Scorch decreases the cast time of Fireball and FFB down to ~1.1 second and 1.3 second casts. FFB is another slow.

Scorch also increases the Crit chance of Fireball (stacking) so that even in the first tier of conquest gear you'll have close to 100% crit chance on it.

Dragons breath into a Meteor is huge damage. Way more than an eviscerate crit at 100.

And on top of that, glyph of regenerative ice is one massive middle fingered FU to any melee who's unloaded his burst only to watch you re-heal it all with an iceblock.

Honestly, I've played hours and hours of fire mage on beta at 100. Rogues are not an issue for fire mages. DK and feral on the other hand are.

[lifteez]

Rogues are immune to realistic nerfing. They're so afraid of changing the "stealth, be annoying" aspect of the class that it finds a way to avoid CC ability pruning. Why shouldn't the class hitting for 20k finishers also have on-demand stuns, disorients and be immune to movement-impairing effects?

Will it be this way at 100? From the looks of the beta streams the answer is an astounding YES.

Just wanted to dispel a common miss-belief, rogues kidney shot take 5 combo points. There goes there finisher. No other class loses so much damage locking someone down. Not warriors, not rets, not dk's. If u cheap someone with a vanish, or garrote, u just lost 1 out of 3 gCds u get in stealth. No other class is this restricted in choices of when to cc. How often does a DK go "I can't stun him because then I won't get to obliterate for another 5 seconds unless I have energy pooled"

This isn't a "rogues r hard bro" post, just a post to say the our Cc isn't what makes us dumb, currently it's the fact all rogues in pvp gear hit for 20k ambushes and 17-35k eviscerates,

so In a opener, here's a example of what my log says happened to a priest in a opener. 69k hp. Just to test burst40+times.
go cheap shot(0dmg),
hemo(3k),
ambush(20k),
evis(33k crit),
(target just gets out of stun)
Marked for death evis(19k),
In this time was 8k+ melee dmg in swings
Garunteed full hp kill if they didn't trinket/skin/pop defensive. Overturned damage. Not the fact that I used cheap shot once. Power word shielded too

[Packing an i5]

Just wanted to dispel a common miss-belief, rogues kidney shot take 5 combo points. There goes there finisher. No other class loses so much damage locking someone down. Not warriors, not rets, not dk's. If u cheap someone with a vanish, or garrote, u just lost 1 out of 3 gCds u get in stealth. No other class is this restricted in choices of when to cc. How often does a DK go "I can't stun him because then I won't get to obliterate for another 5 seconds unless I have energy pooled"

This isn't a "rogues r hard bro" post, just a post to say the our Cc isn't what makes us dumb, currently it's the fact all rogues in pvp gear hit for 20k ambushes and 17-35k eviscerates, so In a opener I go cheap shot, hemo, evis, evis, or I ambush before the evis. Garunteed full hp kill if they didn't trinket/skin/pop defensive. Overturned damage. Not the fact that I used cheap shot once.

excellent post I play a rogue also. Most people dont play one and have no understanding that you make a choice to deal damage or Stun thats part of the class. WE have to pool energy before every kidney or we sit out 5 seconds doing no damage at all. Following the kidney unless you use marked for death we have to then spend the energy we have to build up to 5 points again for a damage finisher.

[redderz1]

This isn't a "rogues r hard bro" post, just a post to say the our Cc isn't what makes us dumb, currently it's the fact all rogues in pvp gear hit for 20k ambushes and 17-35k eviscerates, so In a opener I go cheap shot, hemo, evis, evis, or I ambush before the evis. Garunteed full hp kill if they didn't trinket/skin/pop defensive. Overturned damage. Not the fact that I used cheap shot once.

Except your using lvl 90 to try and talk about damage tuning......

At lvl 100 you'll take out about 1/3 of a toons HP with an opening sequence like that. Damage is NOT overtuned, its tuned for lvl 100.

The 20k+ eviscerates at lvl 90 on 70-80k healthpools turn into 30-35k eviscerates at lvl 100 on 300k+ healthpools.

That's not overtuned at 100 considering the 45k+ obliterates, chimera shots and kill shots flying about.

(although I agree with what you commented re: energy pooling and spending of combo points).

[Dumaw]

I have no idea on lvl 100, but right now, rogues are ridiculously OP, followed by ret pallys

[lifteez]

Except your using lvl 90 to try and talk about damage tuning......

At lvl 100 you'll take out about 1/3 of a toons HP with an opening sequence like that. Damage is NOT overtuned, its tuned for lvl 100.

The 20k+ eviscerates at lvl 90 on 70-80k healthpools turn into 30-35k eviscerates at lvl 100 on 300k+ healthpools.

That's not overtuned at 100 considering the 45k+ obliterates, chimera shots and kill shots flying about.

(although I agree with what you commented re: energy pooling and spending of combo points).

This thread was started on the assumptions of who's OP, from given first hand experiences with lvl 90 gameplay in pvp. I am not mistaken in giving a level 90 example, as I am dispelling a myth that rogues are strong because of CC at 90. Our damage is over tuned. If you'd like to debate what the definition of over tuned is, go for it. But at 90 it is. that doesn't mean I lumped in 90 with 100. I Just said at 90.

But on your topic, at level 100 if we stun lock someone, we lose even more noticeable damage due to lower energy returns. Most other classes stuns don't use a finite resource. Ww/ferals (the other two melee with resource required stuns) also have a talented non resource stun they use for primary stuns during burst(barring mana as a it's a infinite resources in a dps rotation).

[Prag]

Just wanted to dispel a common miss-belief, rogues kidney shot take 5 combo points. There goes there finisher. No other class loses so much damage locking someone down. Not warriors, not rets, not dk's. If u cheap someone with a vanish, or garrote, u just lost 1 out of 3 gCds u get in stealth. No other class is this restricted in choices of when to cc. How often does a DK go "I can't stun him because then I won't get to obliterate for another 5 seconds unless I have energy pooled"

This isn't a "rogues r hard bro" post, just a post to say the our Cc isn't what makes us dumb, currently it's the fact all rogues in pvp gear hit for 20k ambushes and 17-35k eviscerates,

so In a opener, here's a example of what my log says happened to a priest in a opener. 69k hp. Just to test burst40+times.
go cheap shot(0dmg),
hemo(3k),
ambush(20k),
evis(33k crit),
(target just gets out of stun)
Marked for death evis(19k),
In this time was 8k+ melee dmg in swings
Garunteed full hp kill if they didn't trinket/skin/pop defensive. Overturned damage. Not the fact that I used cheap shot once. Power word shielded too

Your argument is completely devalued by the critical failure on your part in recognizing that the CC ability itself is equally potent (sometimes more potent) than the damage you would deal otherwise. Kidney Shot a healer as your partner(s) finish off his would-be healing target and you've done more "damage" than you would have done had you not KS'd the healer.

I play a Rogue as well so this is just slightly more than an assumption.

[Saverem]

DK's are extremly op imo, bursty/tanky, extremly toxic to play against, especially if u are a caster, but im not sure if they fit in many 3v3 comps tho.. well have to wait and see.

DKs are great in BGs, but problem with them in Arenas are that they are currently the most easily pillar'd class in the game. They have NO WAY to catch up to someone with root/sprints. They can DG once every 25s, and that's about it. 3s roots won't do much when target is OOR at the other side of a pillar...

[Deleted]

Gladiator warriors are very good at level 100 -with a team that is. As a pure dps spec it doesnt stand a chance in a duel vs any hybrid class, including dk with their absurd heals.

[Deleted]

Just wanted to dispel a common miss-belief, rogues kidney shot take 5 combo points. There goes there finisher. No other class loses so much damage locking someone down. Not warriors, not rets, not dk's. If u cheap someone with a vanish, or garrote, u just lost 1 out of 3 gCds u get in stealth. No other class is this restricted in choices of when to cc. How often does a DK go "I can't stun him because then I won't get to obliterate for another 5 seconds unless I have energy pooled"

This isn't a "rogues r hard bro" post, just a post to say the our Cc isn't what makes us dumb, currently it's the fact all rogues in pvp gear hit for 20k ambushes and 17-35k eviscerates,

Except that as a rogue you can totally burst a class while stuning it, its very easy as an assasination rogue,marked for death talent,etc...


There is nothing easier now than to get to 5 combo points in a matter of 3-4 seconds.

[Deleted]

Its amusing that people are defending rogues, they rip through casters in opener or if caster uses his trinket and defensive cds it just delays the inevitable. Even if rogue gets low hp, he can just vanish and come back with full hp. Rogue is retard proof, there is always a fallback.

[Rennegadelawlz]

As far as I am concerned, I haven't seen any of the avid pvp posters giving feed back here and that is because its a what's good post. This is the first thread out of maybe 30 that stated dks and ferals better than rets. Feral and ret have always been close but if I can almost take out a 2700 dk on my ele, then my pally can clearly take out any dk, its how you play the classes to compete with it. If you are just a casual player then ya one class will be easier and better than another, you will have to find that out though. Obviously certain specs don't perform as well as others but that should never stop you from playing it.

[Saverem]

As far as I am concerned, I haven't seen any of the avid pvp posters giving feed back here and that is because its a what's good post. This is the first thread out of maybe 30 that stated dks and ferals better than rets. Feral and ret have always been close but if I can almost take out a 2700 dk on my ele, then my pally can clearly take out any dk, its how you play the classes to compete with it. If you are just a casual player then ya one class will be easier and better than another, you will have to find that out though. Obviously certain specs don't perform as well as others but that should never stop you from playing it.

This is assuming level 100 PvP. You are currently talking about level 90 PvP. In 7 days, none of what you said will matter.

At level 100, Rets and Eles are weaker than they are at 90 because their healing will be much toned down. DKs will essentially stay the same.