Californias Prop 47 vote.

[Zvinny]

Alright then, I'll have to ask you to do the same then since theft, forgery, and fraud are not minor crimes even if they amount to less than $950. This proposition is not addressing only minor nonviolent crimes. These crimes show that a person is willing to significantly harm others in a potentially long lasting capacity (in the case of identity theft for example) for their own personal benefit. As for the benefit of putting a felony on someone’s record for these crimes, it serves to provide accurate information on the criminal past of the person in question to anyone with legitimate reason to want a background check on the individual in question.

Misdemeanors are far more easily removed from a criminal record than felonies, and there are any number of situations in which it would be legitimately meaningful to whoever is doing a background check to know if the person they are considering associating with has committed theft, forgery, or fraud. I’m sure a bank wouldn’t be too hot on the idea of hiring a forger, but oh look; they don’t know he is a forger because he was able to get it removed from his record since it’s only a misdemeanor. Felony records for these crimes serve legitimate purposes.

So lets see, I'm 20 years old, I steal something from a store, use someone elses credit card or forge someones signature on a check. And now I'm precluded from pretty much any gainful employment. No way will I ever commit another crime!

[DEATHETERNAL]

What's a minor crime if those are not?

So the legitimate purpose is creating a class of people that are permanently handicapped from succeeding in society. Do you think that it makes society better to have this class of people? Does this sort of handicapping make people less likely to commit a crime in the future?

A minor crime is a crime that has no potential to quantifiably harm anyone else.

It can make them less able to commit such a crime in the future by removing opportunities to do so. When they can still live and succeed with such opportunities removed from them (and they can), it is indeed better to have this class of people than to pretend that people who have shown themselves to be willing to greatly harm others for their own benefit are just as trustworthy as the next guy for sensitive positions.

[NineSpine]

A minor crime is a crime that has no potential to quantifiably harm anyone else.

Like?

It can make them less able to commit such a crime in the future by removing opportunities to do so. When they can still live and succeed with such opportunities removed from them (and they can), it is indeed better to have this class of people than to pretend that people who have shown themselves to be willing to greatly harm others for their own benefit are just as trustworthy as the next guy for sensitive positions.

So you think people with substantially reduced opportunities are less likely to commit crimes?

[Kujako]

Like?

jaywalking?

[NineSpine]

jaywalking?

Jaywalking isn't a crime. It's a civil infraction.

[Themius]

Yeah, what we need is crack out on the streets, and people on it!

So a person takes crack and they should be thrown in jail for ages for it?

[cubby]

On November 4th, California will have a vote on prop 47. Basically, this bill will reduce the penalty for possesion of personal use amounts of drugs to a misdemeanor, and will allow many felons currently serving time to get resentenced under the new guidelines.

The proposition will also reduce penalties for a few other non-serious, non-violent crimes. Read up on it if and be informed:

http://ballotpedia.org/California_Pr...ive_%282014%29

So what do you think? The objective behind this, according to some is to basically keep nonviolent offenders out of jail without going totally soft on the war on drugs, while criticism says it's a way to "cook the books" on recidivism rates.

Far to long in coming. It's ridiculous the number of people the United States has incarcerated. Part of that reason is our essentially "racist" drug penalties (i.e. crack vs cocaine).

[Al Gorefiend]

drug users belong in rehab. Not prisons, not on the streets.

drug dealers, however... can't say I hold the same opinion on that.

[Zvinny]

drug users belong in rehab. Not prisons, not on the streets.

drug dealers, however... can't say I hold the same opinion on that.

The average stand on the corner drug dealer isn't even the real problem, though they are a small part of it. Those guys are as low as low gos in the totem pole of crime. The distributors and wholesalers are the real problem, and where you need to focus if you want to keep dangerous drugs off the street.

Have you ever seen The Wire? It's like that. There will always be some kid willing to risk his freedom to make a couple hundred bucks, but how many people have the intelligence to run a city, state, nation or international level drug organization? When those guys get locked up, it takes a while for a credible person to get things running again. Yet even that has its problems, as when you lock up the kingpins their is a power vacuum, which leads to violence as people try and fill that void.

[Hooked]

I don't care about legalizing weed one way or another, it just doesn't matter. I don't like the idea of tying 2 separate bills together though. I will vote no because I don't want another million aholes released onto the streets from prison. No matter what someone goes into prison for, they come out a hardened criminal. This is typical for liberals, instead of cutting off social services they release prisoners to cover budget shortfalls. All it does is make it less safe and less attractive to live in California for people who can afford to move out.

[diddle]

A minor crime is a crime that has no potential to quantifiably harm anyone else.

It can make them less able to commit such a crime in the future by removing opportunities to do so. When they can still live and succeed with such opportunities removed from them (and they can), it is indeed better to have this class of people than to pretend that people who have shown themselves to be willing to greatly harm others for their own benefit are just as trustworthy as the next guy for sensitive positions.

In Virginia there is no expunging of records, misdemeanor or felony. You could be 35 and still have to be explaining a shoplifting charge from when you were 18 every time you tried to get a job. The justice system is supposed to be about rehabilitation, not this crude punishment shit.

[brimdog]

letter of the law; spirit of the law.

making what some deem to be poor choices doesn't necessarily need to involve incarceration.