CC

[Dispersed]

Why did rogues not lose any CC with the CC squish? Seems like they were the only class that retained them all.

[smana7]

We've had the same amount of CC since the beginning of WoW I believe. Other classes got more and more CCs while we didn't.

Blizz obviously likes the way we are mechanically as we received very little changes.

[Dispersed]

It just doesn't seem right that they are still able to lock people down while no other class can.

[dak1]

Rogues lost Paralytic Poison (talent) and Disarm (just like everyone else). They also had their silence and stun glyphs bonus duration reduced a patch or two ago.

They retained Kidney Shot (had it since Vanilla), Cheap Shot (had it since Vanilla), Garrote (had it since Vanilla), Gouge (not too useful anymore with the bleeds, but also, had it since Vanilla), Sap (had it since Vanilla), and Blind (had it since Vanilla).

Really, very little has changed with Rogue control. It's actually been reduced since Vanilla since stuns didn't used to DR, so we could do a 4 second cheap shot followed by a 6 second kidney followed by a 4.5 second Gouge (it's shorter now), followed by an 8 second Blind, followed by a Sap, followed by the stuns all over again.

As mentioned, other classes have gained significant CC. That's always been Rogues MO and has hardly changed at all other than to match what goes on elsewhere (the introduction of DRs and removing Disarms). Really the only changes to Rogues have been the addition of Shadow Dance and Shadowstep that made Subtlety the primary PvP spec, and those were added in WotLK and Burning Crusade, respectively. I guess Cloak of Shadows in BC and Smoke Bomb in Cata too, but really the class has changed very little.

Rogue design basically requires that we are able to "lockdown" somebody for 6-8 seconds. Toe-to-toe we're very weak, and if our cooldowns are down, pretty much every other class will dominate us. That's been our design since Vanilla. Other classes, like Warriors, had absolutely no business getting basically the equivalent control of Rogues, considering they are far stronger toe-to-toe and have better mobility.

At 90 right now, that is making Rogues very strong. However, supposedly this evens out very quickly at 100 with larger health pools. As soon as you start surviving Rogue stuns, things turn around very quickly. The higher damage is, the better off Rogues are. As survivability is increased, Rogues become terrible very quickly and you see comps like LSD take over.

[smana7]

What else do we provide if you take away our CC (assuming you are talking about PvP)?

[Henako]

What else do we provide if you take away our CC (assuming you are talking about PvP)?

Incredible kill setup / security?

CC and burst has always been a Rogue's job.

[smana7]

Incredible kill setup / security?

CC and burst has always been a Rogue's job.

...through our CC.

[Henako]

...through our CC.

You're forgetting the burst part, though.

[Thelxi]

Rogues lost paralytic poison which is a pretty big deal.