Originally Posted by
Charge me Doctor
And that's why i don't have any issues with his Q, Shaco does have to make tough decision and puts himself in danger, but when played passive, when he expects to get ganked or doesn't feel safe, he can just keep it off CD and run away as soon as enemy uses, for example, Taric stun on him completely avoiding (making it useless, you will be stunned in a stealth miles away from enemies, hurp derp).
It's also not an issue of losing cs by Shen, but surrendering lane to an enemy, giving him uncontested farm, giving him free tower and more map control just because Shen just ulted away to save ally/wombo-combo with Twitch-buddy and got a kill. That's why he runs with teleport (or just takes draon/enemy tower after successful ult, there is some options to get back in line) very often and loses his ability to 1v1 at lane properly (ever laned on top against someone with Ignite while you don't have one?, yeah, that sucks, especially when one of your defenses in health regen from a knife), which unless you didn't picked Shen into something really safe will make your life worse. Is there any way to stop Shen from ulting? Yes, basically you can stun him when he jumps to other lane, or keep him at low health so he won't even think about teleporting to others.
I personally don't like jungle Shen because of same reasons why i don't like Udyr or Heca jungle in solo q anymore, without cooperation it's very hard to gank, and cooperation doesn't exist in 9 out of 10 games.
Yes, Shen is tanky, if you build Shaco tanky he is tanky too, but when Shen misses his taunt, he loses 120 energy, it's 60% of his available resource, with regen on 50, he will get it back only in next ~10 seconds. Tho, he has Ki strike to replenish 10/20/30 energy, but it's not always worth of attacking enemies when you out of position just to get energy back. He is left with 80 energy to run away, he can shield up and throw a dagger to Ki strike someone and get HP regen, and that's it. And that's fine, because if he would have Lee Sin out of all badly initiated fights he would be OPed as fuck.
Shaco is a different story, he is not an initiator, he should die if he uses his Q to get a kill and don't have a back up plan
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Yes, and it didn't solved anything, it's the same toxic kit that lacks of counterplay just worse than before. Their train of thought was like "ok we nerf him to the ground so barely anyone will play him, as soon as he gets better representation we nerf him even more because we don't know yet what to do with his kit".
I remember when Heimer was nerfed (his rockets used to target champions instead of all units), how do you think it changed my gameplay? I started using rockets when there is enemy in range and X minions, where X is amount of rockets i shoot out -1. Same cancerous bullshit but from the other side. Many has quit Heimer tho.
Even Veigar kit can be considered toxic, because if you get caught in his E (which requires either you being stupid, or Veigar being good, or luck, because while in his E and not being stunned you have plenty of room to dodge his W) you get smacked with W, Q and R which often deals more damage than you have health, and without help from outside you most likelly going to die. But it's balanced around him not being able to do this again in next 15 seconds, but no one is going to wait for his CDs in midfight, right? You just jump towards Veigar who just wasted everything into Braum and initiate 4v5 teamfight.
I completely understand why you don't want Shaco to be changed to have less toxic kit and to have actual counterplay, because you will have re-learn the character, because many players will find Shaco interesting and attractive to play and create more competition for you, almost a month of him being banned/picked because he is new and slight chance that Riot will fuck this up (spoiler: they won't).