If you're playing a DK right now...

[Bierce IV]

Same old prepatch BS, same as always.

[Aryah]

Which ones are you talking about?
Because if you play Unholy you have access to Asphyxiate, the empowered pet's 4 sec stun AND his 2 sec interrupt/root that has a 30 yard range.

Pet stun isn't a ranged stun. You're talking about something that is a cooldown and is very unreliable. Worst pet AI in the game. Also it is only limited to the unholy spec.

Afaik dks dont have double grip at lvl 100, do they?

No more double grip. RIP

Death Strike self-healing does seem a bit silly tho.

It costs an unholy and a frost rune to use, which is a decent damage loss. The healing is decent though.

Gorefiends grasp exists at 100. DK healing and current toolkit is fine or maybe even lacking because DK needs alot of help from teammates. DK is easily kited.

DK toolkit is definitely lacking. They lack much utility and are easily kited. What they have going for them is self heals, damage and extra trinkets, which is so hit or miss. DKs are very sensitive to nerfs because of this. So they have enough damage and self healing to be viable for now, but it will probably change quite quickly. Once people get used to DKs in 1.8k+ ratings then they will laugh while DK sits in roots most of the time. All the while people cry for nerfs and get their wishes and we're sitting in MoP all over again.

[Phoenexis]

Pet stun isn't a ranged stun. You're talking about something that is a cooldown and is very unreliable. Worst pet AI in the game. Also it is only limited to the unholy spec.

No, you misunderstand. I was referring to pet LEAP + Asphyxiate. And don't talk about pet AI unreliability, I play warlock and that's honestly far from an excuse to make the ability "weak".
Even if it's limited to Unholy, it still makes the whole DK class much better.
Just look at the amount of interrupts you can have:
-Asphyxiate
-Mind Freeze
-Death Grip
-Pet stun
-Dark Transformation pet leap/interrupt

Also, I'd like to see someone tell me that glyph of Regenerative Magic isn't broken... AMS going down to a 22.5 sec CD is such a joke (and don't say that "you shouldn't cast into it" because any DK with half a clue will wait until a spell is in travel time to pop it. And the last thing we need is to juke an AMS on top of all we have to deal with vs a DK).

[Aryah]

No, you misunderstand. I was referring to pet LEAP + Asphyxiate.

How are leap and asphyxiate related in this context? Are you referring to leap and gnaw? It's still not a ranged stun.

And don't talk about pet AI unreliability, I play warlock and that's honestly far from an excuse to make the ability "weak".

I didn't call it weak; I called it unreliable. Fabricating a false premise on my behalf and then attacking that premise is dishonest.

Also it is well known that ghoul AI is worse than warlock pet AI. It is the worst pet AI in the game.

Even if it's limited to Unholy, it still makes the whole DK class much better.

Ability 1 is limited to spec A.
Ability 1 makes spec B better.

That is completely illogical.

Just look at the amount of interrupts you can have:
-Asphyxiate
-Mind Freeze
-Death Grip
-Pet stun
-Dark Transformation pet leap/interrupt

The leap is not an interrupt. With normal ghoul it does nothing. With dark transformation it is a root effect.

Asphyxiate - Talenting into this makes you lose all mobility.
Mind Freeze - Stock standard for all pure melee (at least they removed the range from mind freeze AKA season 12 warrior LOL)
Death Grip - Using this for an interrupt means you get kited against range (RIP double grip). We don't get charge, intervene, shadowstep, vanish, sprint, monk rolls, tiger's lust, feral immune to roots, etc. We get death grip and chains of ice, none of which increase mobility.
Pet stun - Specific to unholy. Definitely cannot be used to reliably interrupt cases. Maybe if the pet is on the person you want to interrupt already and even then it will have 1/4 chance of not working.

In any case, I don't see how it's relevant to base your opinion of "broken dks" on how many interrupts they have, however arbitrarily defined.

Also, I'd like to see someone tell me that glyph of Regenerative Magic isn't broken... AMS going down to a 22.5 sec CD is such a joke (and don't say that "you shouldn't cast into it" because any DK with half a clue will wait until a spell is in travel time to pop it. And the last thing we need is to juke an AMS on top of all we have to deal with vs a DK).

If you don't cast into it that means it definitely will shorten the cooldown. Then cast into it by all means? TIP: Keep an eye on the dk's use of lichborn. You know, that unmistakable lich head that appears above the DK. As soon as it pops up, stop casting on him. If it doesn't, cast freely into the AMS.

Do you know how much dks have changed since MoP? We got death strike back. There are some minor other changes like baseline pestilence in blood boil, but we also lost necrotic strike. So you're now complaining about a class that hasn't changed except for receiving a new self heal (which we had previously anyway). So ask yourself, why do death knights seem overpowered at the moment? Is it their toolkit? No one complained about it before when DKs were mid to low tier all through MoP.

It seems like you're not very experienced with arena PvP (what this game is balanced around). Also you're probably basing it off of 1v1 (AKA rock paper scissors) with DKs.

Give back hungering cold. Give back old desecrated ground. Reduce DK damage. Everyone is happy.

Signed:

XX
PLAYED DK SINCE WOTLK

[Sentino]

I dont understand the issue with DK, in beta arenas they were never hard to deal with. Played balance druid and retri paladin. DK is easy to kite, because he cant get out of roots.

This is so wrong. Dks have have 2 trinkets (if human u dont even need trinket) and can just grip you and with chillbains and imobalize you or slow you. As a dk i never feel people can run away from me. The only troublemakers for me are mages and rogues. rest are easy. But WoD ret pallys will by far be the best this season.

[Coldhearth]

This is a class that has been broken and OP in pvp from day 1, it's their hero class and they're not gonna do anything about it. Get used to it.

Except the 6 consecutive seasons in which they were free kills without a healer.

[Aryah]

I should probably mention that the removal of disarms has been a big help for DKs, especially considering DKs were the only melee class which didn't have a disarm.

This is so wrong. Dks have have 2 trinkets (if human u dont even need trinket) and can just grip you and with chillbains and imobalize you or slow you. As a dk i never feel people can run away from me. The only troublemakers for me are mages and rogues. rest are easy. But WoD ret pallys will by far be the best this season.

You're playing against bad people and you're not basing this on 3v3 arena. Also a decent hunter will always beat a DK.

How is the human racial related to this discussion? It doesn't give you an extra trinket; it simply means you don't need to equip a control impair removal trinket. This applies to any class.

Except the 6 consecutive seasons in which they were free kills without a healer.

People are very conveniently forgetting this.

[Phoenexis]

The leap is not an interrupt. With normal ghoul it does nothing. With dark transformation it is a root effect.


It seems like you're not very experienced with arena PvP (what this game is balanced around). Also you're probably basing it off of 1v1 (AKA rock paper scissors) with DKs.

Signed:

XX
PLAYED DK SINCE WOTLK

It's sad to see that an "inexperienced" person such as myself in arena PvP knows more about a class that I've never mained than someone who's been playing it since WotLK...
You've lost all credibility! Congratulations! I honestly don't know how you can take yourself seriously when you don't even know how your class even works! "Pet Leap does nothing with normal ghoul! When transformed it's only a Root effect!" That's some rank 1 knowledge right there.

Do you know how much dks have changed since MoP? We got death strike back. There are some minor other changes like baseline pestilence in blood boil, but we also lost necrotic strike. So you're now complaining about a class that hasn't changed except for receiving a new self heal (which we had previously anyway). So ask yourself, why do death knights seem overpowered at the moment? Is it their toolkit? No one complained about it before when DKs were mid to low tier all through MoP.

That's the thing, DKs have not changed that much since MoP. They've gained a few abilities but you've forgotten that all other casters have lost quite a few! I'm also going to point out that Hunters and other melee are broken. So don't think people are specifically targeting DKs.

If you don't cast into it that means it definitely will shorten the cooldown. Then cast into it by all means? TIP: Keep an eye on the dk's use of lichborn. You know, that unmistakable lich head that appears above the DK. As soon as it pops up, stop casting on him. If it doesn't, cast freely into the AMS.

Yeah, so basically: When I'm playing vs a DK as say a warlock or a mage, I have to first juke let's say Demon Bolt or a big shatter so that it doesn't go into AMS. Then I have to try as hard as possible to dish as much damage as possible just to prevent that DK from getting his CD on AMS reduced! Not to mention that it makes the ability even more broken when you use it offensively and your opponents are busy kiting you instead of trying to chip off 50% of your HP.

[Animalhouse]

DKs do have alot of tools no doubt but DKs are designed to be a caster counter. To point out that casters would have issues with spells that are designed to be anti-caster is obvious. Hard to have sympathy. It would be like a rogue crying that hunters are op. Not every class is going to be completely balanced in pvp. Quite frankly...that attitude is what has watered down class focus to the point it is.

[Anzen]

It's sad to see that an "inexperienced" person such as myself in arena PvP knows more about a class that I've never mained than someone who's been playing it since WotLK...

RIP
Here Lies
Aryah's Pride
8:57AM - 3:50PM

OT: Nearly all melee are strong on beta, it's not a DK exclusive thing.

[Phoenexis]

DKs do have alot of tools no doubt but DKs are designed to be a caster counter. To point out that casters would have issues with spells that are designed to be anti-caster is obvious. Hard to have sympathy. It would be like a rogue crying that hunters are op. Not every class is going to be completely balanced in pvp. Quite frankly...that attitude is what has watered down class focus to the point it is.

I think by now we're all used to DKs being a caster counter. And that's fine, they struggle more vs pure melee classes. But the way it is right now doesn't just make them a simple "counter" with a couple of advantages. It's way worse than that to the point where it's unacceptable.

- - - Updated - - -

RIP
Here Lies
Aryah's Pride
8:57AM - 3:50PM

OT: Nearly all melee are strong on beta, it's not a DK exclusive thing.

Rofl. And yeah, that's true. More or less all melee need to be toned down.

[Prag]

It's as simple as removing lockouts (or halving them) in PvP. Every melee has a gap closer and an arsenal of tools to keep a target in place (or out of place). There's no reason why Casters should be susceptible to an additional form of CC via 8s lockouts.

[Prag]

I play unholy right now, and it's really strong, even though I've heard frost was much better.
This is my first dabbling in PvP since mid-Cata after hitting 2.3k, honestly it's pretty nice being able to stick to a target without an obnoxious gapcloser (Charge, Burst of Speed/Shadowstep, Displacer Beast, ect.)
And according to 3v3 ranking from AJ, casters were dominant last season (this is before 6.0 patch)


I don't remember a time when casters have ever been shit, so I don't see how anything is going to change.

Rankings were pre-patch. We're mostly discussing 6.0 and beyond now.

[Aryah]

[IMG]It's sad to see that an "inexperienced" person such as myself in arena PvP knows more about a class that I've never mained than someone who's been playing it since WotLK...
You've lost all credibility! Congratulations! I honestly don't know how you can take yourself seriously when you don't even know how your class even works! "Pet Leap does nothing with normal ghoul! When transformed it's only a Root effect!" That's some rank 1 knowledge right there.

I'm not even mad! LOL

Anyway, it's still very unreliable.

That's the thing, DKs have not changed that much since MoP. They've gained a few abilities but you've forgotten that all other casters have lost quite a few! I'm also going to point out that Hunters and other melee are broken. So don't think people are specifically targeting DKs.

I can live with that. Keep in mind also that caster haven't lost much of their kiting ability in comparison to MoP (if any at all).

Yeah, so basically: When I'm playing vs a DK as say a warlock or a mage, I have to first juke let's say Demon Bolt or a big shatter so that it doesn't go into AMS. Then I have to try as hard as possible to dish as much damage as possible just to prevent that DK from getting his CD on AMS reduced! Not to mention that it makes the ability even more broken when you use it offensively and your opponents are busy kiting you instead of trying to chip off 50% of your HP.

Look, I'm not going to downplay the ability. In MoP it was completely useless outside of generating some RP and stopping some incoming cc. Now that it's working properly against our caster overlords, they are crying like babies.

All I'm saying is that if you want to stop the DK from taking advantage of an ability that he has actually glyphed for and is using intelligently against you, try to damage the shield. If you think that's unfair then I can't help you. At least you have the option to counter it. Try to stand closer to your portal or something.

[Ragaflask]

RIP
Here Lies
Aryah's Pride
8:57AM - 3:50PM

OT: Nearly all melee are strong on beta, it's not a DK exclusive thing.

How about enhancement shamans?

[Saberstrike]

If you think DK is insane wait until you meet a ret that has a clue.

You'll wish you met DK.

[Orly]

Yeah, so basically: When I'm playing vs a DK as say a warlock or a mage, I have to first juke let's say Demon Bolt or a big shatter so that it doesn't go into AMS. Then I have to try as hard as possible to dish as much damage as possible just to prevent that DK from getting his CD on AMS reduced! Not to mention that it makes the ability even more broken when you use it offensively and your opponents are busy kiting you instead of trying to chip off 50% of your HP.

This is the longer version of Why can't I just spam cast my spells and have my target die? , said with a lot of unnecessary words.

[ParanoiD84]

So people are saying that Ret's is op, Dk's is op, Ferals is op, warriors is op, rogues is op so it's safe to say that almost all melee's is strong this expac?

[Anzen]

So people are saying that Ret's is op, Dk's is op, Ferals is op, warriors is op, rogues is op so it's safe to say that almost all melee's is strong this expac?

RIP Shamans, gone but never forgotten </3

Too soon to tell,really

Blizzard themselves have said melee will be OP the first season of WoD.

[ParanoiD84]

RIP Shamans, gone but never forgotten </3

Hehe i hope Shamans get some love to.