From your perspective, who were the "good guys" in World War I?

[Deleted]

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to expect people to understand that imposing ridiculous penalties on a population like that is going to result in bad things. It's not like WW2 was the first such instance.

Well, yes and no. You can't just say "GG WP" after a war and leave it at that. When you win...the object is to make sure the other side isn't going to be able to get right back up and fight you again. Especially if you're France...or any country bordering Germany at that time for that fact. What else can you do besides literally go in there and conquer them ? Nothing.

[Mormolyce]

Then Woodrow Wilson was a prophet! p

He gets quoted now because he was proven right by history. You don't see all the quotes from people who at the time had the opposite view.

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to expect people to understand that imposing ridiculous penalties on a population like that is going to result in bad things. It's not like WW2 was the first such instance.

Shrug. I think predicting WWII based on the end of WWI is not as easy as you might think sitting here in the 21st century with everything laid out before us. Some people did sure, but there were many views on its outcome at the time.

[Crissi]

Well, yes and no. You can't just say "GG WP" after a war and leave it at that. When you win...the object is to make sure the other side isn't going to be able to get right back up and fight you again. Especially if you're France...or any country bordering Germany at that time for that fact. What else can you do besides literally go in there and conquer them ? Nothing.

Economically crippling them however, is only going to cause a backlash when people cant afford anything, as we saw later. They were waaaaay too harsh.

[THE Bigzoman]

Well, yes and no. You can't just say "GG WP" after a war and leave it at that. When you win...the object is to make sure the other side isn't going to be able to get right back up and fight you again. Especially if you're France...or any country bordering Germany at that time for that fact. What else can you do besides literally go in there and conquer them ? Nothing.

I think what the U.S did for Japan and current relations show how to have your cake and eat it to in that regard.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

Shrug. I think predicting WWII based on the end of WWI is not as easy as you might think sitting here in the 21st century with everything laid out before us. Some people did sure, but there were many views on its outcome at the time.

Predicting WW2? Maybe not. Predicting a seriously bad thing? Yes.

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Well, yes and no. You can't just say "GG WP" after a war and leave it at that. When you win...the object is to make sure the other side isn't going to be able to get right back up and fight you again. Especially if you're France...or any country bordering Germany at that time for that fact. What else can you do besides literally go in there and conquer them ? Nothing.

There are multiple examples of how to treat people that you defeat in war. Making them understand that you aren't some evil enemy for them to hate is good.

[Mormolyce]

I often marvel at the people that place Germany at fault for World War II. The fact that they have to pay reparations mystify me. I could see someone pinning the holocaust on them, but when you fuck over an entire nation economically, what do you expect?

Hitler promised for Germany to return to it's "former glory", which was likely translated as we're gonna not struggle economically anymore and people won't be killing each other in the streets anymore under this guy, so they supported him. When he established himself, it was either continue your support or disappear.

I think some people take "the good guys made mistakes" to mean "the good guys are evil and everything is their fault, the bad guys are just misunderstood".

The Nazi government was a ruthless authoritarian regime which brutalised the people of Germany and ultimately the world. Whatever the political background, that's at their feet.

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Predicting WW2? Maybe not. Predicting a seriously bad thing? Yes.

But what use is that information at the time?

Realistically it's hard to know if WWII would or wouldn't have happened regardless of how light the post-war reparations were.

[Deleted]

I often marvel at the people that place Germany at fault for World War II. The fact that they have to pay reparations mystify me. I could see someone pinning the holocaust on them, but when you fuck over an entire nation economically, what do you expect?

Hitler promised for Germany to return to it's "former glory", which was likely translated as we're gonna not struggle economically anymore and people won't be killing each other in the streets anymore under this guy, so they supported him. When he established himself, it was either continue your support or disappear.

And after all, it was Austria that were the ones provoking war in the first place; Germany were only obliged to defend them in times of war.

[THE Bigzoman]

I think some people take "the good guys made mistakes" to mean "the good guys are evil and everything is their fault, the bad guys are just misunderstood".

The Nazi government was a ruthless authoritarian regime which brutalised the people of Germany and ultimately the world. Whatever the political background, that's at their feet.

That's a solid point.

When people say "good guys" they overlook the tendency for good guys to make big mistakes.

Yeah Spider Man is awesome, but since he was dating a sexy ass science girl, he probably should of known that her neck was gonna snap upon catching her.

[Deleted]

Economically crippling them however, is only going to cause a backlash when people cant afford anything, as we saw later. They were waaaaay too harsh.

Harsh was a necessity, whether it worked or not isn't entirely the point.

We're talking about 2 countries, that for all intents and purposes have warred against one another in some way, shape or form for more than a thousand years. Not only that, but Germany felt robbed for several reasons. That they didn't even lose the war, and that it was their time and destiny to be a super power.

Since I don't feel like multi-quoting, there was no way what the US did in Japan would have worked in Germany post WW1. It's easy to say "well, we coulda done this this and this" but the truth is, it really would not have gone down that way, for the reasons I mentioned above.

Without those reparations , Germany would be still highly mobilized and spoiling for a fight again within 5 years max.

[breadisfunny]

In that case the Americans were the bad guys in the War of 1812.

but then that means the gauls were the bad guys in caeser's campaign in gaul.......

[Athabaska]

There is no good or bad guys in politics, everyone is just ugly.

[Tradu]

but then that means the gauls were the bad guys in caeser's campaign in gaul.......

Are you suggesting that Asterix and Obelix were bad guys?

[Crissi]

Without those reparations , Germany would be still highly mobilized and spoiling for a fight again within 5 years max.

and with them,. you helped make the rise of extremism possible. Its a no win situation, but I find Nazism much more deplorable than regular ol warfare vs warfare fueled by racist extremism.

[breadisfunny]

Are you suggesting that Asterix and Obelix were bad guys?

very bad guys. so bad that their mustaches trembled in fear.

[THE Bigzoman]

Harsh was a necessity, whether it worked or not isn't entirely the point.

We're talking about 2 countries, that for all intents and purposes have warred against one another in some way, shape or form for more than a thousand years. Not only that, but Germany felt robbed for several reasons. That they didn't even lose the war, and that it was their time and destiny to be a super power.

Since I don't feel like multi-quoting, there was no way what the US did in Japan would have worked in Germany post WW1. It's easy to say "well, we coulda done this this and this" but the truth is, it really would not have gone down that way, for the reasons I mentioned above.

Without those reparations , Germany would be still highly mobilized and spoiling for a fight again within 5 years max.

Given the imperialistic aspirations of every nation in Europe during that time and even decades prior, I think it's unfair to penalize Germany for wanting a piece of the cake.

When I say everyone, I mean everyone.

The world caught a preview of World War I in the Russo Japanese War, the Boer War, and tons of others.

[Sinirlan]

It was stupid war which shouldn't be fought...

[THE Bigzoman]

It was stupid war which shouldn't be fought...

Look on the bright side, we get to watch an awesome Peter Jackson movie in December because of it.

J.R.R Tolkiens time as a soldier in WWI played a role in his inspiration to create the LOTR universe.

[breadisfunny]

on the negative side we have 10,000,000 dead.

[THE Bigzoman]

on the negative side we have 10,000,000 dead.

Nothing we can really do about the people who had to witnessed the dark side of advancing technology in the form of warfare.

We can however, enjoy the film.

[Deleted]

The Russian proletariat was the closest collection of people involved in WWI to being good. Mostly because they chose to leave that nightmarish wholesale slaughter of the international working-class once they rid themselves of the tsar.

The entire affair was just a murder of the world's poor for the ridiculous whims of the rich. A petty squabble between inbred cousins that cost millions of lives and gave rise to national socialism and Stalinism.