[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[Lysozyme]

I'll believe it when I see it

[celinamuna]

I'll believe it when I see it

http://i.imgur.com/5XsvOUi.png

[Deleted]

So I got accepted to trial in a 13/13M guild. How hard can I expect Archimonde to tear me a new one?

Also, HS w/ LoV & ACP for Archi or LoV & WuE?

[Deleted]

So I got accepted to trial in a 13/13M guild. How hard can I expect Archimonde to tear me a new one?

Also, HS w/ LoV & ACP for Archi or LoV & WuE?

Either LoV/WUE or ACP/WUE. Archi will tear you a fucking new one any time you have to tank a Deathcaller and the boss at the same time. Make sure you have SotR up when Wrought goes off so melee + Wrought doesn't kill you. It basically depends on your healer setup whether LoV or ACP is the best trinket to pair with WUE, and you'll have to get a feel for that yourself.

You do NOT want to do Archi without WUE at this juncture, especially not if it's a new boss for you. It just fucking hurts.

[Deleted]

Either LoV/WUE or ACP/WUE. Archi will tear you a fucking new one any time you have to tank a Deathcaller and the boss at the same time. Make sure you have SotR up when Wrought goes off so melee + Wrought doesn't kill you.

You do NOT want to do Archi without WUE at this juncture, especially not if it's a new boss for you. It just fucking hurts.

Any trade off between choosing LoV > ACP? My ACP is Mythic WF so it's a hefty chunk of BA and mastery I'd feel naked without.

[Deleted]

Any trade off between choosing LoV > ACP? My ACP is Mythic WF so it's a hefty chunk of BA and mastery I'd feel naked without.

It basically depends on how self-sufficient you have to be. If you find there's a lot of "free" throughput and all you really need to prevent is dying to burst damage, then I find ACP and WUE is usually best with HS. If the healer throughput is sometimes lacking when it matters then LoV tends to compensate well for this.

[Deleted]

It basically depends on how self-sufficient you have to be. If you find there's a lot of "free" throughput and all you really need to prevent is dying to burst damage, then I find ACP and WUE is usually best with HS. If the healer throughput is sometimes lacking when it matters then LoV tends to compensate well for this.

So it's more based on feel and how the healers are performing, gotcha. I'll probably go with ACP and WUE first as I feel that will be the safer option initially and see how it goes from there, thanks a bunch.

[celinamuna]

Tbh mb it was my ilvl ~ 726, but i didn't find archi that spooky. Esp considering that you can DS to reset your stacks.

[Deleted]

Tbh mb it was my ilvl ~ 726, but i didn't find archi that spooky. Esp considering that you can DS to reset your stacks.

It's not particularly spooky if you manage externals well because the damage is basically completely predictable, but tanking Deathcaller + boss at the same time is more or less the highest sustained tank damage you'll see in the entire tier.

[Angusmcdowel]

We don't have a kill yet (hopefully tonight, we've had a 4% wipe) but we do have p1+2 down pat. We found that with proper cd's, it's not too bad to tank. Aside from the first Deathcaller before the pillars go up, we only have 3 spawn outside of the Light of the Naaru buff. The first one is while I soak Doomfire, and I sac the other tank and he gets vig as well. Next one he's soaking, and it happens as all the adds are coming out, so I pop ring, and we top that off with an SLT. And the third, he takes, and I taunt boss off him, so no big damage there.

[Lysozyme]

Just curious - I'm not on archimonde yet - would you say that boss + deathcaller is higher damage than p3 velhari, or would you just not call that sustained damage? Or is it less damage on velhari but higher relative to your health pool at the time?

[celinamuna]

Just curious - I'm not on archimonde yet - would you say that boss + deathcaller is higher damage than p3 velhari, or would you just not call that sustained damage? Or is it less damage on velhari but higher relative to your health pool at the time?

When i was tanking death caller + archi, i think i had ~ 200k dtps with 100% sotr uptime and cds rolling, while using WuE and HS with acp.

[Deleted]

Just curious - I'm not on archimonde yet - would you say that boss + deathcaller is higher damage than p3 velhari, or would you just not call that sustained damage? Or is it less damage on velhari but higher relative to your health pool at the time?

Velhari doesn't actually hit that hard per se - if your health pool wasn't capped her damage would be entirely non-threatening since she tops out at about 500k melees before mitigation.

Archimonde hits that hard for the entire fight, and on top of that, the Deathcaller DoT ticks for 100k/s without any stacks. With WUE, mind you. Additionally, the Deathcaller also melees you for about 100k and the Shadow Blast casts hit for 4-500k without any stacks. Basically, in any given global you could potentially take 1.2 million damage before mitigation. The only fight that comes close to that sort of damage is Xhul'horac, and only then if you get melee'd, eat a Fel Strike AND eat the last tick of Felblaze Flurry in the span of one global.

[Veiled Shadow]

Archimonde hits that hard for the entire fight, and on top of that, the Deathcaller DoT ticks for 100k/s without any stacks. With WUE, mind you. Additionally, the Deathcaller also melees you for about 100k and the Shadow Blast casts hit for 4-500k without any stacks. Basically, in any given global you could potentially take 1.2 million damage before mitigation. The only fight that comes close to that sort of damage is Xhul'horac, and only then if you get melee'd, eat a Fel Strike AND eat the last tick of Felblaze Flurry in the span of one global.

I'm fairly certain Archimonde's base melee attacks are much lower than 500k; in fact they're less than what his base melee swings are on heroic.

[Deleted]

I'm fairly certain Archimonde's base melee attacks are much lower than 500k; in fact they're less than what his base melee swings are on heroic.

Just checked, he hits for roughly 220k through SotR with ACP + WUE which suggests a base melee attack in the realm of 500k. He absolutely hits harder on Mythic than on Heroic and I genuinely have no clue where you'd have gotten the absurd idea from that the case would be otherwise.

[Veiled Shadow]

Just checked, he hits for roughly 220k through SotR with ACP + WUE which suggests a base melee attack in the realm of 500k. He absolutely hits harder on Mythic than on Heroic and I genuinely have no clue where you'd have gotten the absurd idea from that the case would be otherwise.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...16&view=events

That's a death knight (i.e. same base mitigation as a paladin), with no CDs active with UeH+EDH, and is taking 310k swings. On 30H, Archimonde hits for ~300-350k.

[Deleted]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...16&view=events

That's a death knight (i.e. same base mitigation as a paladin), with no CDs active with UeH+EDH, and is taking 310k swings. On 30H, Archimonde hits for ~300-350k.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&end=255349606

Roughly 310k melee swings before WUE outside of SotR, which is more than basically any boss this tier, and means the boss hits for 600k (less than I actually thought) before armor reductions. It's also completely irrelevant that 30H Archimonde hits for roughly the same amount when tank damage is consistently much higher at large raid sizes to account for extra healer numbers. If you were actually interested in making a salient point and not just presenting irrelevant data because it fits your narrative, you'd compare Mythic Archi with 20H Archimonde, who hits for SIGNIFICANTLY less.

If you look at https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...85&view=events , you'll see that in a raid size that's actually a relevant comparison, Heroic Archimonde hits for 100k less, i.e 2/3rds of what Mythic Archimonde hits for. Heroic Archimonde objectively hits for less than Mythic Archimonde, and suggesting otherwise just because 30H hits harder than Mythic (which is tuned for 10 players fewer) is twisting the data so hard it boggles the mind. If 30M existed, 30M Archimonde would hit harder than 30H Archimonde too, and you'd have to be outright ignorant to think otherwise.

[Lysozyme]

I'm surprised that the difference in tank damage between 20H and 30H is so large, even with the extra healers

[RagnorZ]

I'm surprised that the difference in tank damage between 20H and 30H is so large, even with the extra healers

More healers more absorbs

[Lysozyme]

Yeah but I'd expect them to err on the side of it not doing that much more damage.