[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I'd say that if you're below 40%, you fucked it up.

[Deleted]

Hey guys, at what point would you consider someone's Seraphim uptime so terrible they're better off with holy shield? Haven't tried anything with the new haste build yet, but for the last couple of weeks my uptime has been anywhere between 38 - 42%. I know its not the best, but is it good enough that its still better than taking holy shield?

I think my problem is that I'm having a lot of trouble getting out of the bad habit of hitting SoTR as soon as i see the WA pop up, especially when things are hectic.

There are also certain fights like ko'argh, where I have to hold off on seraphim till expel arcane is done, or he gets back from charging the ranged, which seems to make for poor uptime on that fight as well.

38-42% is absolutely workable. I'd make sure I have a decent UI and just keep getting used to it.

Nobody is ever going to have 50% uptime on Seraphim when they're playing properly. 45-47% is realistic when you're using it efficiently.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

38-42% is absolutely workable. I'd make sure I have a decent UI and just keep getting used to it.

Nobody is ever going to have 50% uptime on Seraphim when they're playing properly. 45-47% is realistic when you're using it efficiently.

Yeah, fml when I have to WoG 1 seconds before Seraphim is back off CD because, well, I'm about to die

[celinamuna]

Yeah, fml when I have to WoG 1 seconds before Seraphim is back off CD because, well, I'm about to die

That's why god made healing pots/LoH

[trystero]

Yeah, fml when I have to WoG 1 seconds before Seraphim is back off CD because, well, I'm about to die

Not just that but encounter mechanics, too. E.g. on Ogron, Pol shield charges about 30s into the fight so I delay Seraphim until he comes back.

[Ishaori]

With the changes to haste, is there any point at all entertaining builds with EmpS? Assuming that haste affects the tick speed of the Insight buff, is there a point where that becomes a viable source of sustain? Or would Insight still be ignored for straight Truth/Righteousness buffs? I know that EmpS is not highly regarded and is arguably a bit clunky (I certainly wouldn't disagree), but there has been very little discussion about it except for talking about haste caps, nothing about execution and I'm a little curious.

[celinamuna]

With the changes to haste, is there any point at all entertaining builds with EmpS? Assuming that haste affects the tick speed of the Insight buff, is there a point where that becomes a viable source of sustain? Or would Insight still be ignored for straight Truth/Righteousness buffs? I know that EmpS is not highly regarded and is arguably a bit clunky (I certainly wouldn't disagree), but there has been very little discussion about it except for talking about haste caps, nothing about execution and I'm a little curious.

Tick speed not affected.

[Ishaori]

Well that's unfortunate. Not surprising, but unfortunate. Thanks for the info on that.

Still, it would be nice to see some sim numbers and how it stacks up to the others. Not expecting much.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Not just that but encounter mechanics, too. E.g. on Ogron, Pol shield charges about 30s into the fight so I delay Seraphim until he comes back.

Attack Phemos with Seraphim then?

You'll be wanting to keep censure rolling on both bosses anyway.

[trystero]

Attack Phemos with Seraphim then?

You'll be wanting to keep censure rolling on both bosses anyway.

It was just the first example off the top of my head. During Quake though, assuming my cotank doesn't bring Phemos to the center during Pol's charge, I'd prefer to have Seraphim rolling when actively tanking my boss and my healers are scurrying.

[Killingjudge]

Blog post is up, have fun:
http://www.sacredduty.net/2015/01/13...s-gonna-haste/

To address some of the things I've read while skimming this thread and catching up:

1) This change had very little effect on where Seraphim/HS stand. It buffs both of them to some degree. Obviously Seraphim a little more than HS, but not by enough to make a huge difference in how either perform relative to one another. Here's the raid summary plot from the sim in the blog post:

You can compare that to the same prot from the "pre-hotfix" sim to see that nothing much changed on the TMI plot. All the numbers went down by ~1k.

2) Also, this plot can be used to validate Solaire's comment earlier about Seraphim and danger during the downtime - even during the downtime, which is where the bulk of your TMI score comes from, it's a little better than Holy Shield. Of course, that's assuming you do it 100% correctly. Screw up and it quickly starts falling behind HS. Also realize it depends on damage source types and so on, most bosses aren't patchwerk, etc.

3) For those saying it went overboard, read the blog post. This puts haste ahead of the other secondary stats, but still nowhere near the value of Bonus Armor. A smaller buff would have pushed haste up to be near the value of crit or mastery, but not clearly ahead of either. In other words, our attunement stat still wouldn't have been our most-desired stat, which was the goal. IOW, this was a little more than was needed, but not by much.

Thank you, sir. I feel like the entire Paladin community owes you for this update because it seems to have been influenced by your blog posts. Keep up the great work!

[Dreyen]

Tick speed not affected.

What do you guys mean by tick speed? I Always figured seal of insight is just X% healing chance on any hit, and that haste would increase our number of attacks which also means we heal more via seal of insight

[celinamuna]

What do you guys mean by tick speed? I Always figured seal of insight is just X% healing chance on any hit, and that haste would increase our number of attacks which also means we heal more via seal of insight

I think he was talking about the ticks of Empowered Seal of Insight. (% max health)

[kickingcan40]

I'm sitting at 11.21% haste right now. Is the hotfix live?

[hashtags]

So with the recent changes what everyone's opinion on LVL 75 talent. I have used SW for most of this expansion. I am guessing DP will look alot more interesting now.

[Deleted]

So with the recent changes what everyone's opinion on LVL 75 talent. I have used SW for most of this expansion. I am guessing DP will look alot more interesting now.

I still don't like DP. Diabolus Ex Machina is not a risk I ever want to deal with on a progression boss.

Until the day comes where DP is like 10-15% ahead in terms of both TMI and DPS compared to any other option, I simply won't touch it. Reliability as a tank is far too important to fuck around with stuff like DP when so much of our HoPo is already tied up in Seraphim.

[Cedrin]

I'm sitting at 11.21% haste right now. Is the hotfix live?

I'm only getting the new 90 = 1% not the sacred duty yet. Wondering the same thing

[Brummie]

Any bosses that holy shield is better for? recently got back into prot after a failed re-roll to resto sham so i'm playing catch up a bit, and i'm doing my first mythic bosses tomoz.

[Deleted]

Any bosses that holy shield is better for? recently got back into prot after a failed re-roll to resto sham so i'm playing catch up a bit, and i'm doing my first mythic bosses tomoz.

If you're tanking adds on Ko'ragh and Imperator, Holy Shield is better.

So really the answer you're looking for here that's relevant to you is: NO. GOD NO. NO.

[Bobby1291]

I'm sitting at 11.21% haste right now. Is the hotfix live?

Tooltip needs updated?