[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[Serenais]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=764623792

Adjusting. Since something was messed with b4.
But yes, sort of assumed you were talking while accounting for the glyph. Albeit that would still be 90%.

And once again BH with da dank memes : https://gfycat.com/SlightIdealisticBovine

Interesting. I wonder whether there is something I am not accounting for? I do not have access to the Legion alpha, therefore I am working strictly on theoretical level. The equation I am using is as described in this Wolfram Alpha link (please ignore the graphs, Wolfram Alpha shows them over a completely useless range), or on this google docs sheet - please ignore the last two pages, they are a work in progress x) (and not relevant to this discussion anyway)
In the Wolfram Alpha link, x stands for haste percentage, y for crit percentage and z for absolute value for overtime coverage. The first part of the equation (the two multiplied fractions) stand for Judgement crits, the second part stands for SotR charge regen.
In the google document, I am using the equation a bit "bigger", although it is equivalent to the one on Wolfram Alpha; it just stems from the original thought put into mathematics, before the equations were simplified (as they were still equivalent, and me being lazy, I just left them the way they are).

(sidenote - I hope the google sheet will work, considering that local (Czech) decimal notation uses a comma instead of a period to separate integer part of the number from the rest)

[bicycle]

Ok, so I'm a new player right, and I watch that video and think I SHOULD get 100% SotR uptime. Awesome, so I go and I focus so hard on getting something thats unobtainable when I ding, I feel like a crap tank and /slitwrists. My mother walks into my room and see's me dead. She then finds the note I left about being a crap tank and all I ever wanted in life was to be the best paladin in the world. She see's the video of #baebay and knows that's its impossible to get 100% uptime so she goes on a murderous rampage, all over the world, killing every paladin tank in the world and finally, with the FBI swat team surrounding her, cuts off #baebay's neck beard with her toe nail before transforming into Illidan screaming out "you were not prepared... For the outcome of talking utter bullshit on your prot paladin video" and kills him.

That would suck. That's why people who do put out these kinda videos SHOULDNT LIE.

- - - Updated - - -

I really need a proper nights sleep don't I...

I think you're overestimating the audience for those videos. You're assuming they would take that 100% number as a benchmark they should measure themselves by, but people that ignorant tend not to measure themselves at all.

[Deleted]

I think you're overestimating the audience for those videos. You're assuming they would take that 100% number as a benchmark they should measure themselves by, but people that ignorant tend not to measure themselves at all.

The real problem is that the typical audience of his videos is perfectly willing to regurgitate bullshit like "100% SotR uptime 2.5 min bubble omg so OP" on nothing more than a whim - and given that Blizzard is perfectly willing to balance on the basis of public perception and class representation rather than actual class strength, this only adds to already extant issues with people blowing smoke out of their asses on the topic of relative spec strength.

[ikewu83]

Why you guys so calm about 7.0 prot pally design which compare with bear side. Is it too good or too wrong?

[Serenais]

Why you guys so calm about 7.0 prot pally design which compare with bear side. Is it too good or too wrong?

Honestly, it's too early to start either cheering in the streets or to go for torches and pitchfork. They can still do tweaks in the class design that can completely change the flow of gameplay. The spec is different a lot, but whether it will end up being good or bad remains to be seen.

[celinamuna]

Interesting. I wonder whether there is something I am not accounting for? I do not have access to the Legion alpha, therefore I am working strictly on theoretical level. The equation I am using is as described in this Wolfram Alpha link (please ignore the graphs, Wolfram Alpha shows them over a completely useless range), or on this google docs sheet - please ignore the last two pages, they are a work in progress x) (and not relevant to this discussion anyway)
In the Wolfram Alpha link, x stands for haste percentage, y for crit percentage and z for absolute value for overtime coverage. The first part of the equation (the two multiplied fractions) stand for Judgement crits, the second part stands for SotR charge regen.
In the google document, I am using the equation a bit "bigger", although it is equivalent to the one on Wolfram Alpha; it just stems from the original thought put into mathematics, before the equations were simplified (as they were still equivalent, and me being lazy, I just left them the way they are).

(sidenote - I hope the google sheet will work, considering that local (Czech) decimal notation uses a comma instead of a period to separate integer part of the number from the rest)

The formula i use is : =(SotR_Duration * (Crit / 1) / (Judge_CD / (1 +Haste / 1))) + (SotR_Duration/ (Sotr_CD/(1+Haste)))

Which is actually what you use in your spreadsheet :>

PM me your skype, so we can discuss it w/o spamming forum

Why you guys so calm about 7.0 prot pally design which compare with bear side. Is it too good or too wrong?

Because guardian community suffers from down's syndrome, since at every single point so far on alpha, they've been the best tank by a mile.

Also because i'm probably maining guardian

[Sepelio]

I think prot is a little strong, relative to where tanks should be at, guardian is just downright fucking retarded, dh's are nearly there, honestly i think they're completely viable in there current state but there AM is so beyond fucking terrible, and the only defensive cd you have is a single target one on a minute cd, that being said there self healing is just fucking absurd, but they need that as there damage intake is also fucking absurd.

[Proof]

I believe your formulae are the same, with the exception a commutative swap of sotr duration and Jcrit chance. Ser has also added in 10% crit chance from the artifact talent, and it's worth noting there is a 5% base crit chance prior to any stat bonuses.

Building off of this, I threw together a similar version that goes off of raw stats and accounts for conversion ratios. Can share this soon, in the meantime the conversion ratios for anyone who wants to check for themselves:

Haste: 193 points per 1%
Crit: 212 points per 1%
Mastery: 212 points per 1%
Versatility: 251 points per 1%

As of build 7.0.3 at level 108. No diminishing returns.

[celinamuna]

Prot has great scaling with gear, guardians are great from the start, brm in current form are OP, dks are dks, and warriors are so-so.

I mean being realistic we're strong in terms of tanks, just boring AF in terms of gameplay.

[kirielle]

I mean being realistic we're strong in terms of tanks, just boring AF in terms of gameplay.

Also because i'm probably maining guardian

Wut.

I mean, from what I've seen so far guardians are even more boring in Legion than they were in WoD (except for HotW pewpews) and that's pretty impressive.

[Deleted]

Wut.

I mean, from what I've seen so far guardians are even more boring in Legion than they were in WoD (except for HotW pewpews) and that's pretty impressive.

Which doesn't matter in the slightest if the spec remains ridiculously strong. Pulverize, Mark of Ursol, Owlbear shenanigans - the spec is simply too good at too many things right now.

[celinamuna]

Wut.

I mean, from what I've seen so far guardians are even more boring in Legion than they were in WoD (except for HotW pewpews) and that's pretty impressive.

I mean, at least guardians have an actual resource to keep track of :>

Update : Lazel is a joke of serenity, and we're Anus of Paladin community.
#WeDidItReddit

[Reghame]

the only thing i dislike about prot pallies ATM is a lack of offensive toolkit in any sort of form, your baseline numbers are going to have to be fairly high if you dont want to be spamming your taunts just to keep agro off of the other tanks simply because of lacking damage as well.
Sure numbers could be tunned for that last piece but i dont like how theres no offensive part in prot pallys kit.
And btw, vengeance DHs look redic strong ATM considering they basically heal 10% of their HP every other attack and a high uptime on basically a old SotR with bonus parry on it.

[celinamuna]

Time for Sloot FLEM v2

Plz don't quote me. I'm gonna be flamed for being anus of paladin community :'(

[Sepelio]

I watched it and laughed as he read my comments, then spoke about his undergeared paladin tank on there kill in serenity, that feel when 732 is undergeared for mythic archimonde. I love when he read some of the comments and just had to accept the fact that he is retarded. But hands down my favorite part is him putting lazeil out there like a flip flopping retard who can't stick to his opinions, man that was giggle worthy.

[OrcinusDrake]

Is ret aura worse the more gear you get?

[Sepelio]

On alpha? no its just terrible fullstop now, it doesn't proc on damage you take, so if you're good, it'll never proc.

[OrcinusDrake]

Drat. Still I wouldn't want such a boring ability to be any large proportion of our damage, even if it is flavourful.

[Proof]

Plz don't quote me. I'm gonna be flamed for being anus of paladin community :'(

I can only assume he got Anus confused with Apex. Sure there's a lot of salt and memes flying around but when it comes to learning protadin, show me any resource that's more comprehensive or better represented by the spec's current top players.

[celinamuna]

I can only assume he got Anus confused with Apex. Sure there's a lot of salt and memes flying around but when it comes to learning protadin, show me any resource that's more comprehensive or better represented by the spec's current top players.

http://slootbag.com/personal-tank-coaching/