[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[Gemini Soul]

89.25% Magic dmg (x3 hits) vs 125% Physical dmg

The 3 hits are not guaranteed thou, when i was using it VS a target dummy it would hit 1-3 times.

[celinamuna]

The 3 hits are not guaranteed thou, when i was using it VS a target dummy it would hit 1-3 times.

1 Hit should never happen.
2-3 should be depending on model size with most bosses working for 3 hits.

Atm for our scaling :
TMI is haste/vers>mastery>crit
DTPS is vers/mastery>haste/crit
DPS is Haste>crit>mastery>vers

So for combined probably something like Vers/Haste > Mastery > Crit

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

1 Hit should never happen.
2-3 should be depending on model size with most bosses working for 3 hits.

Atm for our scaling :
TMI is haste/vers>mastery>crit
DTPS is vers/mastery>haste/crit
DPS is Haste>crit>mastery>vers

So for combined probably something like Vers/Haste > Mastery > Crit

Happy to hear all my haste gear won't be useless during pre-patch
Sorry I am not familiar with TMI and DTPS - which is more about survivability during progression?

[Tazgoth]

Happy to hear all my haste gear won't be useless during pre-patch
Sorry I am not familiar with TMI and DTPS - which is more about survivability during progression?

w
TMI: http://www.sacredduty.net/theck-melo...ence-document/

DTPS: Damage Taken Per Second

TMI moreso has to do with the smoothness of damage intake, whereas DTPS does not take smoothness into account.

Both are important in different ways. Optimizing for TMI means you get spiked out less, optimizing for DPTS means that healers will have to heal you less overall over the course of the fight. I'd probably put a bit more value into TMI during progression so you don't get bursted down.

[OrcsRLame]

w
TMI: http://www.sacredduty.net/theck-melo...ence-document/

DTPS: Damage Taken Per Second

TMI moreso has to do with the smoothness of damage intake, whereas DTPS does not take smoothness into account.

Both are important in different ways. Optimizing for TMI means you get spiked out less, optimizing for DPTS means that healers will have to heal you less overall over the course of the fight. I'd probably put a bit more value into TMI during progression so you don't get bursted down.

It's also worth noting that unless your healer is some kind of robot, better TMI might result in less overhealing than better DTPS, because people tend to panic when the tank's health is ping ponging.

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1 Hit should never happen.
2-3 should be depending on model size with most bosses working for 3 hits.

Atm for our scaling :
TMI is haste/vers>mastery>crit
DTPS is vers/mastery>haste/crit
DPS is Haste>crit>mastery>vers

So for combined probably something like Vers/Haste > Mastery > Crit

So, seems like a balanced build would be haste/mastery.

[Sepelio]

The balanced build will be haste/vers>Mastery>fuckoffcrit

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

It's also worth noting that unless your healer is some kind of robot, better TMI might result in less overhealing than better DTPS, because people tend to panic when the tank's health is ping ponging.

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So, seems like a balanced build would be haste/mastery.

Haste/Mastery would be convenient, as that's how I'm geared now. With heavy emphasis on haste.

[celinamuna]

So, seems like a balanced build would be haste/mastery.

Balanced build will be vers/haste with master/vers in other slots and trying to avoid crit.

[OrcsRLame]

Balanced build will be vers/haste with master/vers in other slots and trying to avoid crit.

Wouldn't that just be balanced for TMI and DTPS, with vers being the worst stat for dps? I'm just going off what you posted, as I don't have exact stat weights, but mastery seems to be good-mediocre for all 3, while vers and crit are kind of like opposites of each other with crit being worse overall.

[celinamuna]

Wouldn't that just be balanced for TMI and DTPS, with vers being the worst stat for dps? I'm just going off what you posted, as I don't have exact stat weights, but mastery seems to be good-mediocre for all 3, while vers and crit are kind of like opposites of each other with crit being worse overall.

You are correct, however !! the dps rankings are a lot closer in terms of values than in dps, than the weaker stats for survival :


Crit is significantly weaker than the other stats for TMI or even DTPS.

[OrcsRLame]

You are correct, however !! the dps rankings are a lot closer in terms of values than in dps, than the weaker stats for survival :


Crit is significantly weaker than the other stats for TMI or even DTPS.

I see! Now it makes sense. Thank you very much for explaining.

[dexx]

Hows the current build for prot comparing with druid guardian in terms of survivability, dps, and quick threat?

[celinamuna]

Hows the current build for prot comparing with druid guardian in terms of survivability, dps, and quick threat?

But generally all survivability is good, dps tuning hasn't happened, and all tanks have quick threat.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

At T75 I'm seeing:

Hand of the Protector - basically reduces CD on primary self-heal from 15 seconds to 10 seconds
Knight Templar - gives you 20% DR and enhanced movement every 22 seconds (rather than movement only every 45)
Final Stand - total immunity without losing threat for 8 seconds every 5 minutes (maybe once per boss fight on progression?)

I'm kind of leaning toward the first, thinking I'll use it the most and get used to it as part of my rotation. Self-heals every 10 seconds rather than every 15 sounds solid. I'm guessing MDPS won't miss seeing my elek pop up more often. I would love to play with Final Stand, but don't see getting to use it nearly as often.

[Gallahadd]

Final Stand - total immunity without losing threat for 8 seconds every 5 minutes (maybe once per boss fight on progression?)

It's actually considerably less than that. Because of the artifact trait that reduces the CD on Forbearance causing abilities for each forbearance you have up. So between BoP, LoH, BoS and DS, You're looking at SIGNIFICANTLY reduced CD on bubbletaunt.

Also worth nothing, Hand of the Protector isn't as good as it seems, because while the cd is shorter, IIRC it's not effected by all the talents/spells/traits that buff LoTP. So yes it's a shorter cooldown, but it's also a much weaker heal.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

It's actually considerably less than that. Because of the artifact trait that reduces the CD on Forbearance causing abilities for each forbearance you have up. So between BoP, LoH, BoS and DS, You're looking at SIGNIFICANTLY reduced CD on bubbletaunt.

Also worth nothing, Hand of the Protector isn't as good as it seems, because while the cd is shorter, IIRC it's not effected by all the talents/spells/traits that buff LoTP. So yes it's a shorter cooldown, but it's also a much weaker heal.

Ah ok... So you're thinking Final Stand? It's certainly the most dramatic option. If we can consistently use it for every boss fight, even in dungeons, that would be fun to play with.

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Final Stand seems like it would be especially awesome for huge trash pulls.

[OrcsRLame]

Final Stand is the most incredible oh shit button, especially if you have coordination. Pull a bunch of shit, blow your short term cooldowns, as soon as those are running out start the AoE stun rotation, when those are running out, bubble. If you don't suck they'll basically be dead by that point.

LOtP, at least right now for me, is fucking worthless. It's like trying to put a band-aid on 6 inch diameter hole through someone's chest. Worth using but not worth speccing to improve at this time. Maybe once I have all the shit that improves it. The reduced CD and DR on the pony is nice, but there's a few reasons why I think it's hard game changing. Final Stand gives us the single most retarded cooldown in the game. Keep in mind we no longer deal reduced damage while bubbled as well. Final Stand is my go to talent in dungeons, and I don't even have the reduced CD thing yet.

[Gallahadd]

Final Stand seems like it would be especially awesome for huge trash pulls.

I can see it being hilariously overpowered in Mythic+ dungeons.

Being able to maintain a bubbletaunt with anything over 50% uptime will make Paladins the absolute go to tank for weeks with awful combos like explode on death and low threat.

[Gemini Soul]

At T75 I'm seeing:

Hand of the Protector - basically reduces CD on primary self-heal from 15 seconds to 10 seconds
Knight Templar - gives you 20% DR and enhanced movement every 22 seconds (rather than movement only every 45)
Final Stand - total immunity without losing threat for 8 seconds every 5 minutes (maybe once per boss fight on progression?)

I'm kind of leaning toward the first, thinking I'll use it the most and get used to it as part of my rotation. Self-heals every 10 seconds rather than every 15 sounds solid. I'm guessing MDPS won't miss seeing my elek pop up more often. I would love to play with Final Stand, but don't see getting to use it nearly as often.

HoTP doesn't benefit from being in consecration thou so its 25% while LoTP is 30%

[celinamuna]

HoTP doesn't benefit from being in consecration thou so its 25% while LoTP is 30%

I believe they mentioned that it should be benefiting from it, and all the artifact perks.