[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[Gallahadd]

Hey guys, what's the consensus about the new 1 min 2.5k stat potion over the potion of the old war ?

I've not had a chance to check: When it says ALL stats, does that mean secondaries as well?

If so I'd say it's a bit closer and requires some testing, if not... Old War ALL the way for damage.

[Deleted]

I've not had a chance to check: When it says ALL stats, does that mean secondaries as well?

If so I'd say it's a bit closer and requires some testing, if not... Old War ALL the way for damage.

its 2,5k strength - old war seems to be better for dps (at the very least on hero/lust pulls)

[Gallahadd]

its 2,5k strength - old war seems to be better for dps (at the very least on hero/lust pulls)

It's just Str? Then yeah, I think Old War is far better for pure damage. I've seen it doing 10/15% of my overall damage on fights like Evil Tree.
#
Also, after a few days to get used to it, I'm LOVING the new Crusader's Judgement. Survivability and damage have increased, on AoE pulls I'm getting ~90% uptime on Str, it's obviously lower ST, but still much higher than it was.

Hell, without using Hammer to reset stacks, bubble or LoH I can easily go about 6mins against the boss dummy in the order hall, which is about a minute longer than I could manage, before this change.

[Miayu]

Stat Pot also increases Stamina by 2.5k. Since Old War is purely single target, stat pot is better in AoE scenarios (e.g. Mythic+ Trash).
I also like the new Crusader's Judgement. Two charges on Judgement and resets on Parry, Dodge and Blessed Hammer uses feel really good.
Without math to back it up, I feel that the new CJ comes ahead of BoL on AoE scenarios and every scenario in which you are the only tank (Dungeons etc.). Maybe also fast hitting mobs (More chances for GC procs).

[Valenhil]

I actually replaced BH with HS, as with CJ I never actually need a 3rd charge. Damage seems to be about the same, as I throw around as many hammers as I get blocks, but no idea on survivability.

I was just getting pretty sick of BH.

[Adaren]

If you're trying to get SimCraft numbers for the new talents, look at the data with a critical eye. On both the release and beta SimCraft builds, it seems like A. CJ is still unimplemented and B. FA isn't actually giving GC the +10% proc chance.

[Guzrud]

Ok, I have 3 questions guys after having some argument with another player...

1. What is a good uptime of shield of the righteous buff if you go for versa and not haste?

2. My gear has very low versa, does this make gemming / enchanting versa better or worse than if I had more on gear? Basically is it more worth to boost your lowest stat or the higher one out of versa and haste.

3. Is there any downside of trying to stack shield of the righteous buff on top of each other for a long period of sustained damage? Like: use 3 charges immediately, use 4th when it recharges (helping with judgement), use bastion as soon as you're into max cd on all stacks, use 3 charges again, judgement, use 1 more then keep rolling it normally? It allowed me some good 20+ seconds of uptime.

Bonus question: if you have to save charges of the shield on mythic ursoc, would you rather smooth the boss melee damage or rend flesh? As I understand shield buff affects every damage. Also I've seen a paladin use spellwarding on this boss, I believe it shouldn't work as there's no magical damage in the whole fight except miasma (which is negligible anyway).

Hope someone can clarify these for me, thanks in advance.

1. Overall SotR uptime is not really a metric to worry about. You should be pooling charges when you are not tanking and trying to keep a high uptime when you are. If you could keep 45% uptime but keep the buff up 90% of the time you were actually tanking that is better than keeping it up 55% of the time but only having it up 80% of the time when you were actually actively tanking.

2. This will vary per upgrade typically speaking if you are going to value both stats the same then increasing your lower stat would be better. Honestly if you arent pushing like Top 50 US it doesnt even matter get haste/mastery gear out of EN and you will be Godlike with your AM being so high. If you gemmed/enchanted either one the difference is completely negligable.

3. No there is no downside to this type of usage if you are actually getting benefit out of it. If you are stacking up a 20 second SotR while you are waiting for your taunt rotation and then you tuant and have no charges up then yes this is terrible. What you need to remember is especially in EN there are a few instances where you will take high damage for longer than a couple of seconds and outside of that your SotR is just used for smoothing purposes. Perfect example is on say Nythendra there is quite literally not tank damage mechanic. Spam away and go nuts with Seraphim for dps as much as possible while you are actively tanking and pool as much as possible while not tanking. Renferal depending on how you handle adds and boss placement there might be a several second high damage phase when the spider adds spawn so make sure you have a bank of charges for that. You will also have to have charges for Talons but aside from those 2 things again its just about damage smoothing so use your charges liberally while actively tanking. If you just think about each fight in terms of what you need to survive and plan around those instances then you can basically use SotR on cooldown while you are tanking to smooth your melee damage taken.

Bonus question. If you are doing Mythic Ursoc Progression you should have 2 goals in mind 1. Have Sotr up for every application of Rend Flesh and Overwhelm the applications actually do quite a bit of damage and if you have your SotR up for all of the initial hits it will be really nice for you. The second goal is to have some type of mitigation up for all of Rend Flesh duration. I am at work and doing this from memory so this might not be exactly right but this is kinda what I did during progression.

I was pulling tank

Pull boss use 1 Charge Sotr to not cap.
Overwhelm 1 Application Sotr Charge
Offtank takes Rend Flesh
Overwhelm 2 Application Sotr Charge and Artifact
Offtank Overwhelm
Rend Flesh Application was usually able to pool a couple charges here and get most of the first Rend flesh covered with no CDs
Offtank Overwhelm
Overwhelm 1 Application Sotr Charge
Offtank Rend Flesh
Overwhelm 2 Application Sotr charge
Offtank overwhelm
Rend Flesh Application I used BoL here and put up a full duration SotR for this rend Flesh
Offtank Overwhelm
Overwhelm 1 Application Sotr Charge
Offtank rend Flesh
Overwhelm 2 Application Sotr Charge
offtank Overwhelm
Rend Flesh Application Sotr charge + Goak

And so on but you get the idea. Basically your objective should just be to mitigate Rend Flesh as much as possible and keep SotR up for each application hit. Honestly having a 2 Minute BoL gives you a ton more flexability now it was 3 minutes when I did it. If you can achieve this kind of uptime and CD management then just use your extra SotR charges while you are actively tanking to smooth his damage because he hits like a truck.

Most Important!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No idea why that guy was using blessing of spellwarding but dont. Basically when you get past the 4 minute portion of the fight and the boss is enraged since it is a 5 minute enrage you should BoP off your offtanks Rend flesh then bubble the next one that hits you its a huge help to your healers and completely negates 2 applications of Rend Flesh.

Best of luck

[Marrilaife]

Basically when you get past the 4 minute portion of the fight and the boss is enraged since it is a 5 minute enrage you should BoP off your offtanks Rend flesh then bubble the next one that hits you its a huge help to your healers and completely negates 2 applications of Rend Flesh.

Thanks a lot for detailed answers! One more thing, is it worth picking final stand over hand of the protector for "safer bubbling" in the end of the fight? Most paladins seem to take hand of protector but I saw final stand used too.

Perfect example is on say Nythendra there is quite literally not tank damage mechanic.

On Nythendra I tried to stack it enough so it covers the rot dropping part so I need to have few good seconds on me so it doesn't expire before. For some reason if I didn't use any tank cd or trinket for rot it would kill me. And the tactic was I took all the rots until mc, then the other tank would do the same, so I had to have few cds in a row. And I would save biggest cd like guardian for the moment where the other tank is still mced and I have rot to drop, ofc can't drop it on top of people so had boss hitting me while running for a while.

[psuwannanon]

Anyone know about Sephus's Secrest? (CC Haste bonus legend ring)

I heard it was nerf not to proc from Avenger Shield when 7.1 live. But i just got this ring and some it procs from the shield when I tried it this morning

[OrcinusDrake]

Yeah seems like that's working again. But not proc-ing from BL anymore.

[Gallahadd]

YAY I got my first legendary!

I mean... It's Aggramar's Stride and is borderline useless... But Legendary YAY!

[Adaren]

On Nythendra I tried to stack it enough so it covers the rot dropping part so I need to have few good seconds on me so it doesn't expire before. For some reason if I didn't use any tank cd or trinket for rot it would kill me. And the tactic was I took all the rots until mc, then the other tank would do the same, so I had to have few cds in a row. And I would save biggest cd like guardian for the moment where the other tank is still mced and I have rot to drop, ofc can't drop it on top of people so had boss hitting me while running for a while.

If you're having trouble with Volatile Rots, Knight Templar is actually an exceptional talent for that fight. It will be up for every single Volatile Rot, preventing you from getting bursted down and allowing you to get back to the boss quickly.

[Miayu]

You can still taunt when you're in divine shield, it's just automatic with the talent. Only useful if you're needing it in an AoE environment. I suspect the ones using it on that boss are very lazy or the players who are in the mind set of THIS IS MY SPEC FOR THIS EXPANSION AND NOBODY IS GOING TO TELL ME HOW TO PLAY MY GAME.

Except that Taunt lasts 3 seconds and Final Stand lasts 8 seconds, granting your raid 8 seconds of Berserk protection (Except for his Roar and Charge).
If tank heal is not the matter (2 Holy Paladins, for example), using Final Stand is quite feasible if you hardly match the Enrage timer.

What i personally do is:
- Get volatile rot
- Run out
- Use flash of light to fill boredom time
- Volatile Rot hits
- Instantly Hand of the Protector and run back in

The only moment of "tank damage" in the fight is when you have healers mind controlled and you're on your own, it's at these moments I use guardian or an armor pot (during progress)

You can also wait until there is less than 4.5 seconds left on the Volatile Rot timer, use Shield of Righteousness, Divine Steed out, lay down Consecration (For better mitigation) and H/LotP up after Volatile Rot hits (Or use Bubble / Blessing of Spellwarding for no damage and only 1 stack of Infested)
Running out immediately is a damage loss, anyways



@Marrilaife:
It would be better if you rotate taking Volatile Rot (Nythendra becomes immune to taunt quickly if you force Volatile Rot on one tank) and force the other tank to become Mind Controlled during the second Infested Mind (There is no Volatile Rot after second Infested Mind), just let him stand in some Infested Ground patches. Meanwhile you yourself should only become Mind Controlled after the fourth Infested Mind (You should only take two Volatile Rots, the second and the fifth) and use Blessing of Spellwarding for the first and Bubble for the second (So you gain only minimal stacks).
In case you played so well that you only have 6 stacks on the fourth Infested Mind, you should soak some Infested Ground Patches on the fifth Volatile Rot.

[Adaren]

(Nythendra becomes immune to taunt quickly if you force Volatile Rot on one tank)

My guild uses the one-tank-take-all-the-Volatiles strat and we've never hit taunt immunity. However, Nythendra is completely immune to taunt when she's breathing. You either need to taunt before the breath, or do it while she's casting Infested Mind.

[Marrilaife]

You can still taunt when you're in divine shield, it's just automatic with the talent. Only useful if you're needing it in an AoE environment.

Do you need final stand for the solo soak elerethe cheese? I was picking it but not sure if simple bubble would work too and not really wanting to risk a wipe to check out.

[versuslol]

Do you need final stand for the solo soak elerethe cheese? I was picking it but not sure if simple bubble would work too and not really wanting to risk a wipe to check out.

no you do not need FS, simple taunt will be enough to lock the boss on you
you simple have to taunt her and have her sitting on you before she jumps away and starts 6sec pre-cast of winds
as soon as pre-cast done she begins 8sec cast of winds - simple bubble/BoSW as cast starts

[Hellkung]

no you do not need FS, simple taunt will be enough to lock the boss on you
you simple have to taunt her and have her sitting on you before she jumps away and starts 6sec pre-cast of winds
as soon as pre-cast done she begins 8sec cast of winds - simple bubble/BoSW as cast starts

Yeah but she very rapidly casts Raking Talons after one or both her Violent Winds, can't remember I think it's both. Usually you won't be in range to taunt her when Violent Winds and your bubble ends so you risk a DPS dying, unless you coordinate with your off-tank to be taking the first Raking Talons which is the most logical choice.

If you want to make it completely foolproof you can just use Final Stand.

[versuslol]

Yeah but she very rapidly casts Raking Talons after one or both her Violent Winds, can't remember I think it's both. Usually you won't be in range to taunt her when Violent Winds and your bubble ends so you risk a DPS dying, unless you coordinate with your off-tank to be taking the first Raking Talons which is the most logical choice.

If you want to make it completely foolproof you can just use Final Stand.

How FS can save you from Talons cast to incorrect target? FS locks the boss on you for duration of bubble. During winds she pushes you away even through the bubble. Cast lasts for 8 sec, so much lasts FS. Right after it she casts Talons. How FS can handle that please explain.

We always use 3 tank on that boss esp for simplisity of the fight (web, spiders, solosoak winds). Meanwhile winds are on pally in bubble - 2nd tank taunts the boss, Talon#1 goes to his face, 3rd tank take Talon#2 > pally is back to the boss meanwhile, taunting her and ready to solosoak second Winds with BoSW

[Zabuzan]

You could delay the Divine Shield for later during the wind pushback, so that it's still active for FS to keep the fixate until after the Raking Talons....?

But almost definitely not worth it imo; for our Spiderbird kill I used DS for the first one (no FS!), then Tank 2 taunted before Raking Talons to stop it running over from me (depending on how far away I was, if there was nothing to block my push back) and Tank 3 taunted before Raking Talons 2, just kept it on him until the next wind pushback and used Blessing of Spellwarding on him to avoid messing about with unnecessary extra taunts.

The fact you can solo soak the wind pushbacks using DS or Blessing is the OP bit already!

[Mascotte]

Eya;

I recently switched mains due to tankshortage within the guild and picked up a prot paladin.
Now when i started the advise i got was 'go for vers!' so i did.
But now i see every prot paladin going for full haste, and i dont really understand why.
Haste is just the default AS buff or am i completely missing something?
Or is it just for the higher ilvls that it becomes important?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ascadin/simple

Yeah im a little baby protty compared to alot here but i really like the spec so any pointers would be much appreciated!