[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[Gallahadd]

Pretty sure BH will still be the best pick on the level... But since there are a few fights in Nighthold with a majority spell damage, it's nice to see Holy Shield getting some love.

[Arte]

Got myself leaden dispair from timewalking. It's 1300 stam and an 11k armor proc for 10 seconds if you get meleed below 35% hp. ICD is 30 seconds.

Does that sound broken as hell to you guys? I'm looking at a 56% physical damage reduction with a 30% uptime if I'm in the kill zone.

side note: How do you guys build to survive tyrannical bosses? I get hit like a fucking truck.

[Angusmcdowel]

That's absolutely insane. Especially considering that you already gain +30% armor when below 40% health due to artifact traits, then this proc almost triples your armor (I have ~5800 armor base in ~885 gear). That's like having a GoAK and then some every 30 seconds. You do have to drop quite low for it to proc, but when it does you'll be almost unkillable. I feel a nerf is already on it's way...

[Deleted]

That's absolutely insane. Especially considering that you already gain +30% armor when below 40% health due to artifact traits, then this proc almost triples your armor (I have ~5800 armor base in ~885 gear). That's like having a GoAK and then some every 30 seconds. You do have to drop quite low for it to proc, but when it does you'll be almost unkillable. I feel a nerf is already on it's way...

The TW-Trinkets from the past 2 events are also pretty OP. And fortunatly no nerf for them. I think a lot of people are blinded by their item level.

[celinamuna]

I wouldn't call it blinded tbh. Rather a lot of people have a reasonable expectation that things of much lower ilvl will not be upgrades. Even though this xpac completely fucked that paradigm

This has been the case in a number of expansions prior to this too. Esp on trinkets.

[Marrilaife]

The TW-Trinkets from the past 2 events are also pretty OP. And fortunatly no nerf for them. I think a lot of people are blinded by their item level.

Well I heard they will get nerfed next patch. Not sure if true. Read it here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...h.lwmlezsz87if

Can't confirm the source tho.

[Deleted]

well i heard they will get nerfed next patch. not sure if true. Read it here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...h.lwmlezsz87if

can't confirm the source tho.

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[OrcsRLame]

Got myself leaden dispair from timewalking. It's 1300 stam and an 11k armor proc for 10 seconds if you get meleed below 35% hp. ICD is 30 seconds.

Does that sound broken as hell to you guys? I'm looking at a 56% physical damage reduction with a 30% uptime if I'm in the kill zone.

side note: How do you guys build to survive tyrannical bosses? I get hit like a fucking truck.

Which Tyrannical bosses have you been struggling on, at what ilvl, and what keystone level?

A lot of tanking dungeon bosses correctly is memorizing their sequences and having mitigation up at the correct times.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

The TW-Trinkets from the past 2 events are also pretty OP. And fortunatly no nerf for them. I think a lot of people are blinded by their item level.

I looted Leaden Despair this morning when it trippled my armor; by tonight it was nerfed by 90%. It currently shows proc in-game as approximately 1600 armor instead of 11k. Ah well, I tanked a couple dungeons with it.

[Marrilaife]

Yep, the vendor timewalking trinkets seem to be nerfed 25%+ as well, valor medal is 2,942 armor (was 4k), gnomeregan auto-blocker is 1,471 armor (was 2k).

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I need better trinkets, and am working on it. Overall I'm 880 atm, but still equipping 865 trinkets.

Picked up a Shivermaw and Dinner Bell tonight, but they were 840 and 855, respectively. I can confirm the Dinner Bell is still providing same buff as food you eat, so I think that is intended by Blizz and just not on tooltip so we could have the fun of figuring it out.

[Arte]

Which Tyrannical bosses have you been struggling on, at what ilvl, and what keystone level?

A lot of tanking dungeon bosses correctly is memorizing their sequences and having mitigation up at the correct times.

Oakheart 11 was a struggle. I had SotR up for every breath and my healer and I cycled CDs on the grips, but I was still up around 350k dtps. That seems like a lot for me, and because I had to stack CDs for the grip, I had periods of no mitigation in which I got hit for two 1.1m+ autos and abilties, gibbing me almost instantly. My trinkets are Arcanocrystal and the Haste trinket from Nythendra (the one that adds leech and drops a pool.) I havent been able to get a proper tanking trinket yet, but I'm not sure one I should be trying to farm.

Edit: 670 ilvl at the time

Arc 10 and VotW 10 were also sketchy as hell, but I think that might have been due to the hpal I was running with. It was overflowing..

[OrcsRLame]

Oakheart 11 was a struggle. I had SotR up for every breath and my healer and I cycled CDs on the grips, but I was still up around 350k dtps. That seems like a lot for me, and because I had to stack CDs for the grip, I had periods of no mitigation in which I got hit for two 1.1m+ autos and abilties, gibbing me almost instantly. My trinkets are Arcanocrystal and the Haste trinket from Nythendra (the one that adds leech and drops a pool.) I havent been able to get a proper tanking trinket yet, but I'm not sure one I should be trying to farm.

Edit: 670 ilvl at the time

Arc 10 and VotW 10 were also sketchy as hell, but I think that might have been due to the hpal I was running with. It was overflowing..

Oakheart is one of the hardest hitting bosses in 5 mans. A lot of bosses have predetermined sequences where they cast spells vs auto attack, and a good tank can have mitigation up for most of the auto attack stuff. but Oakheart pretty much just spams autos and spells that directly hurt the tank, so there's probably not a lot I can say that you wouldn't already know.

First off, I will say stam flasks and potions of prolonged power are your friends. Hand of the Protector heals based on percent of missing health, so higher max HP is the greatest increase to HPS we can get. I'm not surprised that an 870 ilvl pally tank would struggle in an 11. Doesn't mean it can't be done of course, but it's going to suck. 350k DTPS seems about what I would expect more or less. If you're playing perfectly, you can probably do around 200k HPS to yourself with Seraphim and a bit more with Righteous Protector. That is timing HotP perfectly and using LoH and a health pot at the right time. If you get really desperate against auto attacks, you can always taunt the boss, bubble, and cancel it after 2 autos.

It seems to me that the group in general may not have been appropriately geared for an 11. If you cycled CDs on grips, and you could not afford to save even 1 for regular smoothing against autos, that means you're getting at least 4 grips, which seems like a very long fight to me. Realistically, with lust and damage pots in an 11 I would expect 400-500k single target out of my dps.

Basically, blame the dps, blame the healer.

For trinkets, I swear by Chrono Shard and Memento of Angerboda. I think at this point most people prefer the Goblet of Nightmarish Ichor. Those are all hybrids between damage and survivability though. There's certainly trinkets that are higher on the totem pole for pure survival purposes.

[Sepelio]

Chrono shard is beyond terrible with its highly fluctuating proc rate, unless its a signiicant ilvl increase over other trinkets it is quite hard to warrant its use

[Marrilaife]

Oakheart 11 was a struggle. I had SotR up for every breath and my healer and I cycled CDs on the grips, but I was still up around 350k dtps. That seems like a lot for me, and because I had to stack CDs for the grip, I had periods of no mitigation in which I got hit for two 1.1m+ autos and abilties, gibbing me almost instantly.

If it's not a pug and your healer isn't a shaman you can ask for his cds for predictable and visual things like grip, to save yours for other situations. Last time I did DHT+12 I was getting sac from holy pala for grip so could use only small cd for first, save guardian for second.

A lot depends on your group dps. If it's poor, you can't do anything and you will run out of CDs. I tried once EOA+12 on Tyrannical and last boss took us several attempts because we ran out of mine & healer's CDs. The only solution we found to finally beat him was hero not on start but near the end so the resto shaman gets his +healing during hero when the damage is the worst and the s2m priest benefits from hero instead of the other 2 dps.

Also on any high m+ I pick final stand just for those "oh shit" situations. It's an extra 8 seconds you don't need any healing. It ended up saving me during that EOA+12 because at first I was using lay on hands but it seems final stand gave healer bigger breathing room.

It helps a lot during situations like uncontrolled raging / bolstering, random ass pulls or even tank mistakes (like getting knocked into lava on last boss in Nelth, no clue how he manages to hit me sideways I always try to move him...)

Also tbh if 2x 1,1m hits gib you instantly, use stam flask, I know majority of people run with str flask for the extra dps, but paladins have smaller health pool so it might make a difference (also creates bigger threshold where your artifact's +30% armor applies).

About trinkets which you want to farm, depends what usually kills you, if it's 1 big hit like breath from something, Arcway trinket helps (coagulated nightwell residue). If it's just constant melee, you might want to invest in darkmoon card, since the timewalking trinkets are nerfed and the current underway Cata event one gives dodge which is meh. Xavius trinket is good for that purpose too however if you only do m+ not raiding that's out of your reach.

But tbh I'm in the same pinch, having hard time finding a perfect trinket against huge steady melee hits.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

But tbh I'm in the same pinch, having hard time finding a perfect trinket against huge steady melee hits.

I'd think the DMC would still be solid for huge steady hits. For single target, I'd use Grotesque which is available at higher item level. Reaching your 35th artifact rank will help tremendously, as it's +10% armor all the time.

My trinkets are my weak spot at the moment, but I feel like my 870 Echo is underrated. I know some pallies discount it because our HotP/LotP is more efficient when we let our health dip before using it, so they feel like the trinket wastes its procs when they're not needed. In practice, however, I find my healers won't let me dip below 50% very often unless they are under duress, so the trinket procs mostly come at welcome times providing 30% damage reduction. The 1005 Haste is nice too.

[Rynzler88]

Chrono shard is beyond terrible with its highly fluctuating proc rate, unless its a signiicant ilvl increase over other trinkets it is quite hard to warrant its use

I'd disagree for 5 mans esp on Necrotic with the Legendary Boots.

[Sepelio]

You can disagree if you want, but its not really an opinion, factually its a horrid trinket, the extreme level of variance in proc makes it unreliable. As far as for necrotic with legendary boots, Sephuz is better in that regard in nearly every way. The trinket itself when compared either offensively or defensively of alternates with similar ilvl will lose out unless it decides it wants to be a generous god and proc more than once every 4 minutes.

[Rynzler88]

You can disagree if you want, but its not really an opinion, factually its a horrid trinket, the extreme level of variance in proc makes it unreliable. As far as for necrotic with legendary boots, Sephuz is better in that regard in nearly every way. The trinket itself when compared either offensively or defensively of alternates with similar ilvl will lose out unless it decides it wants to be a generous god and proc more than once every 4 minutes.

Pretty interesting.

I find the variance to be high honestly. I get a high up-time on it personally or at least it feels like I have it up / lines up with my cds pretty regularly. I guess I'm just lucky.

You're also talking as if I have a Sephuz which I don't.

I have the chest, belt (which will be bis soon) and boots.

Please list the alternates you would take in a mythic 5 man over Chrono shard. I'd love to hear them.

[Deleted]

I more or less always take Horn of Valor and Shiwermaws Jawbone in M+.