Lvl 100 ridiculously low Balance dps

[mythiix]

My rotation thus far has been using starsurge on the way up... never really considered doing it at peak or on the way down unless i'm needing to clear up a charge. My theory was that if we use it on the way up it gives us two starfires at higher amounts of energy versus 1 starsurge . Also if doing it this way it allows the use of Starfire on the way down from solar eclipse. (My transition point occurs at around 2.8 seconds on the solar side when going Solar--->Lunar). That way I'm casting a lot more starfires over wrath. (not taking into account movement).

Another question that I have is if refreshing dots with CA+INC (W/O Hero) is really worth it because in those last .1-.5 seconds of CA that you have, you can either get off 1 starsurge or refresh your dots. I'm starting to lean towards firing starsurge since you will enter solar as soon as the dot is falling off. This allows you to refresh it this one time at a low eclipse value providing more ss/wrath at a higher energy value.

Opinions?

[Pyrodevil]

Hi OP can I get a link to your armory please and thank you. I am curious as to what your gear is like now and also the numbers you are pulling.

Unfortunately oceanic armory is down
When its up, ill post.

With all buffs you can do a comfortable sustained 18kish without factoring a lusted opener.
With a lusted opener you can do about 42k burst which then averages out your dps at 20-22k ish depending on fight duration.
Multi-target fights and add fights change this ofc.

[earthwormjim]

You want to DoT Sunfire on Peak to maintain its 100% uptime and every 2nd Moonfire. But I really like taking advantage from the fact, that PEAK moonfire does pretty good damage and is instant, so if I need to move, or I know that I will HAVE TO move, it's really great to make that step with instant.

I don't see the benefit in applying dots during peak. The only part that benefits is the initial damage. Wrath and Starfire do more dps.

[Erdluf]

If you have a choice about when to cast your DoT, peak is better (the doubling of the DD you were going to cast anyway is makes up for a nuke spent farther away from the peak).

One thing I'm not seeing mentioned: With Euphoria you only need to cast MF every other cycle. I'm finding it difficult to train myself for that, but if you have two or three targets, the time saved is significant.

Not necessarily optimal, but I do like the feel of (single target) using SS anywhere I don't already have the empowerment it would give. With Euphoria, you'll get a chance to use the buff, and energy moves so fast, I'm more concerned with buffing as many spells as possible, rather than worrying that they are used exactly at the peak.

[Cyous]

I don't really see how this would help me to cast an instant between two hardcasts without having to stop casting.

Then suck it up and deal with the latency? Losing 0.3sec over a 6-10min encounter is nothing.

[blackblade]

Your entire response was pretty spot on, but I just want to highlight this point. Who cares about our damage in 5 man non-CM dungeons and other "lesser" PvE content. Mobs live longer (CM trash) and we do better DPS. I think anyone who is losing their mind about their "low" dps in five mans needs to take a step back, get their rotation and mechanics on par for what really matters...raids and CM's.

Decent way to benchmark yourself across other classes is through the MC LFR. hit up the groupfinder for a premade run (they're a thing) and compare your DPS relative to ~30 other dps across both trash pulls and bosses with (albeit simple) mechanics.

[Girthmonster]

If I get you right, with "technically means you are casting them out of Lunar Eclipse" you think, that spell takes stas when cast begins? My starfire takes stats when cast is completed I think (If I am wrong, please tell me :-D). I cast those empowered starfires about 70% and at peak with my style :-).

This I understand. The point I am making is that it seems as though you are casting at least one Empowered Starfire outside of your Eclipse (ie on the way up to peak). I think it would be more beneficial to cast one so it hits at the peak and the second to it hits shortly after leaving the peak, than having one at peak and one totally un eclisped. No?

[Deleted]

...

This way you get empowered spells when you go TO PEAK. And one non emp when going to 0.

Keeping this track on is based on a movement A LOT. But if you can hold it, I guess it's one of the best ways you can do damage. Every non-intendet move is bad for this rotation and you have to know enounters and plan forward a lot. Because you got only two instants (DoT and Surge).
Ot really fits my haste and I can put those pre-zero starsurges in. Dlouhouch-Drak'Thul armory.
What you guys think?

PS: sorry for bad formatting, sending this from my mobile

Logically speaking (As I have no numbers saying otherwise) I don't see how this is a DPS increase compared to using SS before empowerment so you can get a SF/Wrath cast at 105 energy and the other cast off at around 60 Lunar/80 wrath. Maybe I can see it working if you have 2 SS' ready and you cast one on the exit of one eclipse and one as normal so on the way back you have the empowerment up and then another SS just off cooldown for the empowerments to then be used at peak as per the 'normal' rotation. But aside from that I see it as a DPS loss as you are not using your mastery to its highest potential by wasting empowerment charges while the damage is lower.

Also generally speaking, one thing I have noticed is that raid buffs give an IMMENSE DPS increase, most notably Crit+Haste, so if your DPS is low and you feel you should be doing better for your gear level just check if you have those buffs and if not, compare it to the next time when you have those buffs, I promise you that your DPS will be significantly better.

[Deleted]

This I understand. The point I am making is that it seems as though you are casting at least one Empowered Starfire outside of your Eclipse (ie on the way up to peak). I think it would be more beneficial to cast one so it hits at the peak and the second to it hits shortly after leaving the peak, than having one at peak and one totally un eclisped. No?

Unless you got 200% haste or isnt running euphoria.

If you start casting a starfire at 10% lunar or even 0 - your cast will finish when you hit 60-70%, your next one will hit at 100%.
third will be at ~50% probably.
You seem to think that you can get a SS and 2 starfires of during peak.

[KevyB]

Hi everyone. I want to address a few things here.

First, if you don't know me, it's because I lurk occasionally but rarely post. I wrote the guide in another forum on the spec Krit wanted to use to write his own, done using all the SimCraft builds, playing with them, helping to optimize the profiles, etc.

I see a lot of people in here claiming Boomkin is doing garbage DPS, but there's one thing I don't see: logs. If you are having issues and seeing poor results but think (keyword: think) you're playing right, show post up some logs so we can see if you actually are. There's a difference between lots of people seeing poor DPS and a spec actually performing perfectly.

Bring me some logs, and I'll go through and see where the problem is.

Also, never trust any SimCraft ranking, especially if it isn't put out by the folks that do SimCraft. Even the mass ranks they put out are usually single target, Patchwork fights which have little if any bearing on legitimate DPS in a raid.

You don't seem to get it, the baseline balance dps is horrible, not everyone can be top-notch rotationists, which in turn causes most boomkins to severely gimp dungeon/raid groups.

The problem with your statement is that you completely miss the point, it's about average players doing good damage (while of course properly chaining their skills for the most part) and better players doing even better damage, instead, its averages doing shit damage and betters doing weak damage.

The gradient is shifted the wrong way, your "logs" aren't going to solve anything.

Unless of course you plan to go out and school every single boomkin in becoming mastercaster, yeah right.

TL; DR - you're missing the point.

[Deleted]

I don't see the benefit in applying dots during peak. The only part that benefits is the initial damage. Wrath and Starfire do more dps.

You're bound to refresh your dots multiple times during the encounter. Might as well do it when the damage from reapplying your dots is maximized, aka. during peak.

[Deleted]

You're bound to refresh your dots multiple times during the encounter. Might as well do it when the damage from reapplying your dots is maximized, aka. during peak.

If you are in the Pandemic range of your dots then yes, but if it forces you to refresh your dots early just to get the peak buff, it should be a dps loss no?
I usually wait for the dots to be in the Pandemic range before I refresh them. If the right peak it about to occur before the dot runs out then yes I´ll wait for the peak before refreshing, otherwise I´ll try to wait out something that forces me to move and I´ll refresh it anyway OR I´ll have to refresh it before I´ll leave the appropriate eclipse.

[Dr420]

You seem to be putting too much thought into it, both of you. The rule is 2 starfires and 3 wraths in between starsurges. The difference between peak and 0 is far less important than following this rotation. Just from changing my rotation to this from starsurge on ce single target increased my dps by about 4k on average. Its not so much when you do it as it is taking advantage of all buffs afforded to you.

As far as boomkin dps, i was reading through the thread and a lot of people seem to be complaining about it. At item level 624 im doing 15-25k depending on movement / number of targets / buffs. In heroics yes we definately fall behind in teh short trash packs but who cares about that, bosses are totally fine, ret pallies and hunters are usually the only ones that top me. In MC ( i know its lfr but still its the only raid we have to measure against right now ) I was head and shoulders above every other class, by at least 1% most of the time. We are in a good place right now, it's just people have to get used to the new style of play.

[murdax]

You seem to be putting too much thought into it, both of you. The rule is 2 starfires and 3 wraths in between starsurges. The difference between peak and 0 is far less important than following this rotation. Just from changing my rotation to this from starsurge on ce single target increased my dps by about 4k on average. Its not so much when you do it as it is taking advantage of all buffs afforded to you.

As far as boomkin dps, i was reading through the thread and a lot of people seem to be complaining about it. At item level 624 im doing 15-25k depending on movement / number of targets / buffs. In heroics yes we definately fall behind in teh short trash packs but who cares about that, bosses are totally fine, ret pallies and hunters are usually the only ones that top me. In MC ( i know its lfr but still its the only raid we have to measure against right now ) I was head and shoulders above every other class, by at least 1% most of the time. We are in a good place right now, it's just people have to get used to the new style of play.

At around that item level I am doing that also 15-25k I always thought it was very low dps since I was told this by others. Not to mention I run a lot of heroics, getting queued up with glad warriors, ret pallies and hunters that make me feel like I am not even trying. The dps gap that they are doing are just crazy I am doing 14-17k average not using my CDss and getting spell buff from others classes and these guys are doing in the 20K + dps..... Even the Warrior and Blood DK tank are doing too much.

[earthwormjim]

You're bound to refresh your dots multiple times during the encounter. Might as well do it when the damage from reapplying your dots is maximized, aka. during peak.

Why waste the peak window on a lower dps ability rather than a higher dps ability since it is a scaled buff?

It would make the most sense to refresh dots when lunar and solar are at their minimum buff values. That way you are making the most of your scaled eclipse buff on your highest damaging abilities.

If it's a dps increase to be dotting on peak, it would be a dps increase to just moonfire or sunfire spam non stop.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

With the recent round of nerfs, I'd say DPS is pretty well balanced.
Gladiator was insane, so I'm glad to see that get a step back, and Shaman and Warlock were struggling in some departments, so hopefully that is enough to bring them more in line.

[ponies]

i was upset to not see a dps boost to some balance spells this morning when i saw the round of buffs and nerfs. but again i am new to balance so i assume we were pretty good to begin with I'm just not very good at my rotation

[Rawfury]

my main struggle is keeping up with aoe on normals and heroics. Everyone else does so much damage so fast i dont have the ramp up time to aoe. I either run out of starsurge uses by the time the mob is dead or i dont have enough time to dot things up then starfall before the mobs are dead. bosses i seem to be fine though

[Deleted]

i was upset to not see a dps boost to some balance spells this morning when i saw the round of buffs and nerfs. but again i am new to balance so i assume we were pretty good to begin with I'm just not very good at my rotation

We're bad on heavy movements + single target fights, we literally have no aoe burst(imagine if there will be a fight like ragnaros, gg).. FOr the rest we are on par and "pretty strong" on multi-dotting.. Unfortunately we ain't good with low ilvl, till 660-670 we won't be top and I can already see a nerf coming by the time we reach that point. I don't remember us being op since t11/t12.

[kaid]

OP Here.

I retract my initial complaint. Turns out we scale very well with gear and group buffs.
It took me far too long to realise that my regular instance groups (with friends) didnt have spellpower or haste.

Practice euphoria.
Learn when to precast solar/starfire whilst still in the opposite eclipse
Learn to astral communion into solar to multidot and (glyphed) starfall

dps will happen.

Using astral communion when you need to multi dot is pretty huge. I started going that and with euphoria you can force solar really really fast. You are wasting very little DPS for the gain of being able to solar flare/star fall fast on multi pulls. Prior to getting euporia it always felt like it took to long channeling astral communion but now with euporia it takes a couple seconds to do it which is very reasonable for speedy aoe setup.