Is Telling Someone To Use Caution Really Victim Blaming?

[Tyrgannus]

Over the past 4 or 5 years, there has been a lot of pushback in our culture in how we talk about and treat victims and all people who have had to deal with certain atrocities. Most of it makes perfect sense and in hindsight was very much needed. Comments like "but what was she wearing?" really were turning the focus away from the assailant to the victim in an unneeded way and the shockingly gross "she was asking for it" has greatly diminished as of late (yay!). However, like all good things, I believe things CAN be taken too far. I've had a dickens of a time telling ANYONE to do ANYTHING vaguely cautious without being verbally smacked upside the head for victim blaming, which is quite odd to me. A few years back, if one of my friends wanted to walk through the docks, industrial district, or south end at night alone I would have told them it was a bad idea and they should probably reconsider. I myself wouldn't do that and Im a freakin' bouncer for crying out loud. I still warn people (because it is a bad idea) but am more often than not met with ridicule of either sexism if the person I'm warning is a woman (you think I can't take care of myself because I'm a woman?) or victim blaming (Yeah, sure, it's not the muggers that are being shitty it's me!). If someone mugs you, it's not your fault. However, if someone mugs you at 2 in the morning in a dark alley in the bad part of town by yourself (cliche example is cliche, I know), you might have to ask yourself what you were doing there in the first place frankly. Chalking up any and all appeal to caution as victim blaming seems like an odd lack of personal responsibility to me.

I personally see a HUGE difference between taking precautions and blaming the victim, but that line seems to be blurring in the current narrative. What are your thoughts on the matter MMO-Champ? Am I terribly out of touch with reality or has the concept of caution and responsibility been somewhat thrown out the window as of late?

Before anyone starts coming in this thread appealing to any sense of privilege I have that makes me too blind to see the obvious truth, I've been sexually assaulted, mugged, AND robbed in my life of which none of them were my fault. Sometimes bad things just happen even when taking precautions and I TOTALLY get that.

[apepi]

I say taking caution would not hurt. People are pretty thoughtless now days.

[Crissi]

Phrasing is everything. "That part of town has a lot of bad stuff, so you shouldnt walk there alone" vs "If you walk there alone, Im not going to feel sorry if something happens to you".

[Tyrgannus]

Phrasing is everything. "That part of town has a lot of bad stuff, so you shouldnt walk there alone" vs "If you walk there alone, Im not going to feel sorry if something happens to you".

Well yes, the second is really shitty. Frankly, they aren't the same message. One is an appeal to caution, and the other is admitting you are a sociopath.

[Independent voter]

It's like when Midwesterners come here and walk around with their wallets hanging out of their back pockets.

[Crissi]

Well yes, the second is really shitty. Frankly, they aren't the same message. One is an appeal to caution, and the other is admitting you are a sociopath.

You'd be amazed how many people have phrasing problems. Or are just shitty humans in general I can think of a few "if you walk there, you kinda deserve it" peopple on this board.

[Tyrgannus]

It's like when Canadians come down here and walk around with their wallets hanging out of their back pockets.

Every time I see someone with a bulging money clip or 60% of their wallet hanging out of their pocket, all I think is "Oh honey...you are trusting...".

[EnclosedOne]

its because people don't ever want to take responsibility for any of their actions, no matter what, it always has to be someone else's fault. I really can't bring myself to feel sorry for idiots who blatantly throw caution to the wind and are then surprised when something bad happens to them. You're example may be cliche but I think it's pretty spot on

[Deleted]

its because people don't ever want to take responsibility for any of their actions, no matter what, it always has to be someone else's fault. I really can't bring myself to feel sorry for idiots who blatantly throw caution to the wind and are then surprised when something bad happens to them. You're example may be cliche but I think it's pretty spot on

This, people are fucking idiots, if they want to get offended let them. Utterly backwards culture. "It's not my fault I walked through a dark alley in a ghetto to save twenty bucks!"

Let them get on with it.

[Tyrgannus]

Ok, what if a person was mugged in a part of town that didn't have a bad reputation? How bad of a reputation does a neighborhood need to have for them to not be fucking idiots in your guys' book? Who is to judge the scale? Crimes per capita? How many is deemed safe?

[Deleted]

People are absurd about it. Especially in regards to rape. "Don't go into shady neighbourhoods and don't wear revealing clothes" - people being completely detached from the realities of it, that it's the most likely it's someone you know who is going to do it, someone you trust and either in their home, your home or another friends home. Not the stranger assault rape outside.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Phrasing is everything. "That part of town has a lot of bad stuff, so you shouldnt walk there alone" vs "If you walk there alone, Im not going to feel sorry if something happens to you".

All that needs to be said /endthread

[Deleted]

People don't seem to want to take personal responsibility for their actions. Yes, the rapist is to blame, yes, it'd be nice if we could live in a world without rape, yes, rape is wrong. Should you get blind drunk to the point where you may not be in complete control of your actions? No. And that's not just for women, men shouldn't either. What if you get knocked down? It's silly. People act as though they live in the world they want, rather than the world as it is.

[Deleted]

People don't seem to want to take personal responsibility for their actions. Yes, the rapist is to blame, yes, it'd be nice if we could live in a world without rape, yes, rape is wrong. Should you get blind drunk to the point where you may not be in complete control of your actions? No. And that's not just for women, men shouldn't either. What if you get knocked down? It's silly. People act as though they live in the world they want, rather than the world as it is.

Yet again, most rapists are people you know and it happens in familiar environments. You're pretty much saying "Women shouldn't spend time with male friends" when you go "you should be more careful so you don't get raped!".

[Wells]

A lot of it is when it gets brought up. I mean if you're teaching your kid how to avoid problem situations then great. If you're telling a rape victim what they should have done then fuck off.

[Korgoth]

A lot of it is when it gets brought up. I mean if you're teaching your kid how to avoid problem situations then great. If you're telling a rape victim what they should have done then fuck off.

Ah man I might agree with Wells, now I have to have some deep introspection.

We as a society should recognize and point out the obvious mistakes people have made that led them getting hurt to each other; but telling the person who got hurt how they fucked up Captain Hindsight style is not going to help anything.

So the OP pointing out that hey watch out for yourself if your walking to xxx, its a known xxx, is not victim blaming, or in no way wrong.

[Deleted]

Yet again, most rapists are people you know and it happens in familiar environments. You're pretty much saying "Women shouldn't spend time with male friends" when you go "you should be more careful so you don't get raped!".

That's a pretty impressive leap considering I didn't mention strangers, friends, familiar or unfamiliar environments. My advice was not to drink to the point where you're not in complete control of your actions. I think that is valuable advice for everybody. And even though stranger rape is less frequent, that doesn't mean that common sense advice like not wandering around dangerous areas is any less valid.

[Keyboard Champion]

Rape happening in unfamiliar environments is actually pretty rare. Most cases of rape happen at parties, ex-boyfriends, family, or other places you wouldn't actually expect it. There is no such thing as a woman walking through a bad neighbourhood after dark, like in those cliche 90s movies where the hero rescues the victim.

[Deleted]

It seems to me that alot of people these days want to be victims, they don't care if they get assaulted as long as people don't blame them and as long as they get some attention.

[Wells]

It seems to me that alot of people these days want to be victims, they don't care if they get assaulted as long as people don't blame them and as long as they get some attention.

I hope some day you understand why this is a very stupid thing to say.