Obama Admin Colludes with Univision for Amnesty Announcement?

[PACOX]

Good. Its about time we actually work on the immigration issue instead of just bringing it up when someone is trying to get elected. Politicians don't actually care about the issue, but its something that people will vote for Now Congress will actually have to work on immigration reform now that Obama has gotten rid of their old talking point.

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And frankly Conservatives should be happy about this. Here we have a politician saying he's going to prioritize government spending in a way that focuses limited government funds on serious criminals and border security over going after productive and law abiding families.

Nope, because he is taking away a work force that they exploited.

[Cthulhu 2020]

"Presidential overreach" is the new GOP buzz word for the president using legally granted presidential authority to do something they don't like.

[Wells]

"Presidential overreach" is the new GOP buzz word for the president using legally granted presidential authority to do something they don't like.

"Presidenting while Democrat"

[Rukentuts]

"Shredding the constitution"

[Fugus]

Sad thing about the illegals, neither side is willing to do what it would take to actually stop the influx of them and get the ones here to leave and come back legally.

And that is to hold the ones hiring them legally responsible and on the hook for much more than a slap on the wrist, like jail time for the ones responsible and money taken not from the companies but from the paychecks of the ones responsible directly and leaving the shareholders on the hook for the difference with the higher priority stock on the hook first.

Edit: As it stands, one side doesn't want to get rid of them because they allow a downward force on wages and workers right and the other side doesn't want them gone partly for the same reasons but with the added twist that if they are able to legalize them, they would vote for them as well to combat the gerrymandered districts to hell and back that has suppressed voter representation to frightening degrees.

[Spectral]

Sad thing about the illegals, neither side is willing to do what it would take to actually stop the influx of them and get the ones here to leave and come back legally.

And that is to hold the ones hiring them legally responsible and on the hook for much more than a slap on the wrist, like jail time for the ones responsible and money taken not from the companies but from the paychecks of the ones responsible directly and leaving the shareholders on the hook for the difference with the higher priority stock on the hook first.

It'll also entail a Constitutional Amendment (or even just a national law) similar to California's old Prop 187, but that's not happening. Stop illegal employment and stop government handouts to people that are here illegally and people will immigrate legally.

[Fugus]

It'll also entail a Constitutional Amendment (or even just a national law) similar to California's old Prop 187, but that's not happening. Stop illegal employment and stop government handouts to people that are here illegally and people will immigrate legally.

Honestly, I could pass 2 laws in tandem that would slash the influx of illegals to a fraction and have many actually return probably.

Law 1) Any company caught knowingly hiring or remaining willfully ignorant of hiring an illegal shall have its management (all they way up to CEO if they knew about it or tried to make sure they couldn't) fined no less than $10,000 per illegal and shall be imprisoned in no less than a medium security prison for a period of no less than 1 year per illegal employed. If they were not paying the illegals prevailing wages, the fine jumps to $20,000 per illegal and the prison sentence jumps to 5 years per illegal. These fines are paid, not by the company itself, but out of the managers personal money and shareholder profits, including retirements and dividends and the confiscation of property and this debt can not be removed with bankruptcy.

Law 2) Any illegal who turns themselves in along with the company that is hiring him, with proof he works for them and they know about his status or make sure to avoid the topic, shall be granted 1 year room and board in the US and a fast track for citizen ship with all fees paid but he still must do all the tests and meet all requirements to become a citizen as a reward for his good deed. During this time he is given a temporary visa and may also find a new job while doing this as it allows him to find work and save up for when he finishes his paperwork and can immediately establish themselves.


What you think?

[Spectral]

What you think?

I'm up for it.

I empathize with people that immigrate illegally and go to work - they're following very powerful incentives to do so, and the only laws they've broken are things that are essentially, "you were born on the wrong side of the border, fuck you". I don't like these laws much at all. I think they're largely a necessary evil in the present state of the world, but holding animosity towards people that break them seems deeply irrational.

To me, what you're driving at is the only realistic solution - take the bad incentives away. When there are perverse incentives, you'll have bad outcomes. Put the incentives in good places instead and you'll get good outcomes.

[Wells]

Well if you don't grant amnesty (which isn't whats happening here anyway) what do you do with them?

[Fugus]

I'm up for it.

I empathize with people that immigrate illegally and go to work - they're following very powerful incentives to do so, and the only laws they've broken are things that are essentially, "you were born on the wrong side of the border, fuck you". I don't like these laws much at all. I think they're largely a necessary evil in the present state of the world, but holding animosity towards people that break them seems deeply irrational.

To me, what you're driving at is the only realistic solution - take the bad incentives away. When there are perverse incentives, you'll have bad outcomes. Put the incentives in good places instead and you'll get good outcomes.

Exactly.

Don't punish them severely as they are only coming here for a better life, just send them home till they do it legally (which also should be streamlined but that is another topic).

Just punish the ones for breaking the laws and exploiting them, don't even punish the company as a whole as that gives them an excuse to raise prices, punish the individuals responsible so they personally are the ones taking a hit.

Once that incentive is removed, the demand for them in the job market is removed which removes their drive to come up illegally looking for work.

And allowing the ones who turned their employers in on a fast track rewards them for their service they did to this country turning their employers in while creating a positive incentive to do so, effectively setting what is best for the employers and the illegals against each other.

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Well if you don't grant amnesty (which isn't whats happening here anyway) what do you do with them?

I would say do the 2 laws I posted and watch a lot of it fix itself.

[Merkava]

Well if you don't grant amnesty (which isn't whats happening here anyway) what do you do with them?

I'd be in favor of amnesty for all 11 million or so illegal immigrants, and so would most people, I believe, if we really meant that it would be the last time. That the border would be secure and current laws enforced.

[Cthulhu 2020]

The US actually needs an influx of 20-40 something old workers, as our dependency ratio is falling with the boomers retiring. It's contributing somewhat to our economic problems. More people working and paying taxes raises our dependency ratio.

[Fugus]

The US actually needs an influx of 20-40 something old workers, as our dependency ratio is falling with the boomers retiring. It's contributing somewhat to our economic problems. More people working and paying taxes raises our dependency ratio.

No we don't we need our businesses forced to adjust their required hours for the full time based on the number of the people in America and adjust their wages to something more fair and allows all the support themselves.

Every 20-40 something you added to the ratio would mostly just increase the number of unemployed in the country as they still can't get a job opening that doesn't exist.

[Halicia]

I'd be in favor of amnesty for all 11 million or so illegal immigrants, and so would most people, I believe, if we really meant that it would be the last time. That the border would be secure and current laws enforced.

If my governor (and certain other republicans) would stop referring to immigrants as 'illegal' who are actually in the process of being legalized but have to wait in !@#$ing bureaucratic limbo because they refuse to fund anything that includes the word 'immigration', I might be able to listen to them when they use the words 'illegal immigrant'.

[Merkava]

If my governor (and certain other republicans) would stop referring to immigrants as 'illegal' who are actually in the process of being legalized but have to wait in !@#$ing bureaucratic limbo because they refuse to fund anything that includes the word 'immigration', I might be able to listen to them when they use the words 'illegal immigrant'.

What makes you think I care what you can or can't listen to?

[Hooked]

Do your worst to us Obama before the republicans take over.

[Cthulhu 2020]

No we don't we need our businesses forced to adjust their required hours for the full time based on the number of the people in America and adjust their wages to something more fair and allows all the support themselves.

Every 20-40 something you added to the ratio would mostly just increase the number of unemployed in the country as they still can't get a job opening that doesn't exist.

Does aggregate demand mean something to you, or am I talking to myself?

[Gumboy]

Interesting video of Obama saying the biggest problem facing the country are because the president is trying to put more power in the executive branch and not involved congress at all, and thats what he intends to change.....awkwaaaaard.

I have basically no opinion on amnesty, it does not effect me in any way, positive or negative; however, I personally found watching that video then seeing what he did today to be base hypocrisy. I realize people are going to say "WELL X REPUBLICAN DID IT TO!" well...that does not make it right for Obama to do it as well.


Also kind of sad how young he looks there compared to now

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Also this, from Sen. Reid (was in related videos lol) just ripping on giving citizenship to babies born from illegal parents in the US:

[kyoloco]

i fail to see a negative side to this

[Wildtree]

Also this, from Sen. Reid (was in related videos lol) just ripping on giving citizenship to babies born from illegal parents in the US:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqyeb-5ZfEc#t=22

This applies easy as one of the most brain dead stupidity examples I've ever seen.. I couldn't bear it any longer than to the 2:40 mark, then I had to turn it off...
That guy... He could compete in an IQ battle with a slice of bread, and still loses.