There is a hole in your bucket!! shouted the Holy paladin to his tank ....

[tratra]

Well I've been healing a lot of CM's lately and I can say that we are very very weak as a class for CM's.

I use CM's as a comparison because of maxilvl been set to 630 and no gems or whatever.

They said we are tank healers once again and I was happy about that... but no, definitely not, we can keep a tank up don't get me wrong but we cant keep it easily up unless we spam every ability and burn cd's like a boss.

On the other hand resto shams are owning it by healing everything amazingly good and the tanks, and resto druids are about the same.... So imho its a shame that other classes are owning it.

[Bannik254]

Posted this before for new to WoD Holy Paladins, but here's a repost.

Healing gets better with gear, itemizing Haste/Critical with some Spirit in between, but the key to Holy Paladin healing I've noticed seems to be your use of the tier 6, level 100, talent and the Avenging Wrath cool down.

Holy Prism for me is the best healing ability in our arsenal for 5 mans heroics. If your having a hard time, tell your group's DPS to stay within 30 yards of the boss at all times via range finder addons, if needed.

Avenging Wrath, as it comes, is far too potent and just ends in overhealing, along with its 3 minute cool down, the ability generally gets saved for "OHS*IT" situations, which isn't optimal. Get and use the Glyph that reduces the spell affects by 50% and the cool down by 50%. At 1.5 minute CD you can begin using this talent once every 2 pulls, once every pull if the tank is slow.

Saved By the Light, this level 100 talent is getting overlooked in favor of the second beacon of light. The second beacon is honestly overrated in 5 man content. It just results in more obnoxious overhealing. Saved by the Light is the ultimate "OHS*IT" "button" in our arsenal. It has saved my tank more times than I can count. Get it. See for yourself. Having a Cheat Death on a 1MIN CD is such good utility and it boggles my mind how any healer worth their salt would not have this outside of raids. Even in raids, this talent will have its place. Thinking that Patchwork type boss coming in that upcoming raid.

Another talent, Clemency, getting two charges of Hand of Sacrifice, again, is such powerful active mitigation that without it, you are gimping yourself. Having Lay on Hands on a 5min-6min CD is nice, but again, in comparison to two Hand of Sacrifices at 3min CD each with 30% Dmg reduction. This talent clearly wins. And it synergies very well with Avenging Wrath, use Hand of Sacrifice while Avenging Wrath is on CD as a filler Dmg mitigation. Glyph it as well. Obviously.

Those are all my current tips for reducing "Healer" stress. Another day, another dungeon. Have fun guys!

Edit: Honestly, this Forum's Holy Paladin guide is no good. Thought I would check it after I posted here to direct you there, but if you follow it, you will have a very hard time attempting to heal Heroic or Challenger 5 man content. It needs to be updated.

[Very Tired]

The thing about Saved by the Light is that your beacon targets need to dip below 30% to actually get any use from it, since my targets in heroics tend to not do that, it would end up almost being a wasted 100 talent. I guess you could form a strategy to let your targets fall below 30% on purpose to get the nice shield before healing them up, but your group might not like it.

2nd Beacon + Glyph of Bacon is nice for mana efficiency. Yes it can lead to over heals if there isn't more than 1 person taking damage, but it allows you get that 40% mana refund easier, or spend less mana and time on healing spells if your utilize it correctly on healing the most possible targets.


Other than that, I kinda like the state of holy paladins I've seen so far. I imagine this healing like a wet noodle will disappear over time as we gear up. I think that was the case with the last expansions or so.

[Bannik254]

The thing about Saved by the Light is that your beacon targets need to dip below 30% to actually get any use from it, since my targets in heroics tend to not do that, it would end up almost being a wasted 100 talent. I guess you could form a strategy to let your targets fall below 30% on purpose to get the nice shield before healing them up, but your group might not like it.

2nd Beacon + Glyph of Bacon is nice for mana efficiency. Yes it can lead to over heals if there isn't more than 1 person taking damage, but it allows you get that 40% mana refund easier, or spend less mana and time on healing spells if your utilize it correctly on healing the most possible targets.


Other than that, I kinda like the state of holy paladins I've seen so far. I imagine this healing like a wet noodle will disappear over time as we gear up. I think that was the case with the last expansions or so.

Healing isn't always about Heals Per Second. For me, healing is about keeping everyone alive. There are lots of tanking mechanics in Heroics and Challenger where the tank will take HUGE hits, Saved By the Light is the fail-safe. Dismissing this talent based solely on the fact it can't be used every single minute on CD doesn't take away its utility and usefulness. The second beacon of light, glyphed, with no global CD would be useful if the beacon spell itself didn't have a mana cost AND if it didn't already have a 3 second CD. Constantly swapping beacons beats the point of refunding 40% mana, it is redundant.

Now, will a second beacon of light increase your HPS? Obviously. With the global CD Glyph, will beacon be more Mana Efficient? Not sure. But, you are overlooking something. At 630+ Item Level, Mana isn't a key issue anymore. FoL spam, if cast on your beacon target will not "oom" you, or at least not right away. Even with no Spirit itemized, Paladin's only really go "oom" when they spam FoL on non beacon targets.

Furthermore, the more gear you get, the more powerful heals get. At that point, it will come down to which healers have the most utility. Paladin's arsenal of utility is unmatched in mitigation and keeping tanks alive.

[Deleted]

beacon on the target and spam the heals. no problem at all. i think pala is one of the best 5 man healers.

not really... lacks mobility and aoe heals but for 5man heroics its ok.

Also ye there are a lot of tanks that think we are still in pandaria and u can heal 0 to 100 with one flash, if the tank its not that easy to keep him up unless u rotate ur cds.

[Very Tired]

Healing isn't always about Heals Per Second. For me, healing is about keeping everyone alive. There are lots of tanking mechanics in Heroics and Challenger where the tank will take HUGE hits, Saved By the Light is the fail-safe. Dismissing this talent based solely on the fact it can't be used every single minute on CD doesn't take away its utility and usefulness. The second beacon of light, glyphed, with no global CD would be useful if the beacon spell itself didn't have a mana cost AND if it didn't already have a 3 second CD. Constantly swapping beacons beats the point of refunding 40% mana, it is redundant.

Now, will a second beacon of light increase your HPS? Obviously. With the global CD Glyph, will beacon be more Mana Efficient? Not sure. But, you are overlooking something. At 630+ Item Level, Mana isn't a key issue anymore. FoL spam, if cast on your beacon target will not "oom" you, or at least not right away. Even with no Spirit itemized, Paladin's only really go "oom" when they spam FoL on non beacon targets.

Furthermore, the more gear you get, the more powerful heals get. At that point, it will come down to which healers have the most utility. Paladin's arsenal of utility is unmatched in mitigation and keeping tanks alive.

It's not so much constantly swapping as you might think, and as you said at high gear levels, that tiny mana cost on beacon of light would just be something to cough at. Now if holy pallies were only in charge of keeping the tank alive I would easily agree saved by the light is the better talent choice. However, unless raids are willing to revert back to that BC model of healing (which I personally wouldn't mind to much), we will still have heal the rest of the raid or 5 man group. I guess it basically comes down to Saved by the Light prefers single target healing, while the extra beacon favors group damage.

[Avengedlol]

My 2cents about holy pally is that they feel great to me. I have yet to find myself dead oom during 5man heroics . Getting up to were I am now in gear was really fun with double beacon swaps to keep people up. Also running double sac, not being scared to LoH and using the 1.5min wings glyph with the longer wings talent has been more than enough to keep the tank and group up. Also running SS because it just feels better to me.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Love that you just hop to the assumption that they're bad because they didn't learn the entirety of the new expansion in a week. Give people time, they'll adjust.

That's not my point, the point is that there are bad players everywhere- not just in the tank community but also in the dps and healer community. It's perfectly fine to be "bad", there's no rule against that and like you said people will get better.

[Deleted]

My 2cents about holy pally is that they feel great to me. I have yet to find myself dead oom during 5man heroics . Getting up to were I am now in gear was really fun with double beacon swaps to keep people up. Also running double sac, not being scared to LoH and using the 1.5min wings glyph with the longer wings talent has been more than enough to keep the tank and group up. Also running SS because it just feels better to me.

Try CMs. Holy-Paladin is unnecessary hard. You just have no AoE heals. 2nd boss in skyreach is a bitch, i can only heal with holy prism and the entire group is dying. I like Paladin in general, but right now it's basically FoH spamming and almost no AoE Heal. Worst 5man healer.

[Deleted]

Generally speaking, most people drop the MoP mindset fairly quickly once they realize it's not really viable right now.

[Bodelightbringer]

I've been farming CM's, the only one that I found to be a real challenge was 2nd boss of Skyreach. I don't think I have healed that hard since Halion HM 25 when it was current.

Gearwise, if you are 610-620 ilvl you are going to need to have people CC. There are certain pulls in certain dungeons where if no CC is used and if you don't have a CD ready you won't be able to keep the tank up even bomb healing. So get repentance or be vocal in asking for CC. By 625 plus I didn't need CC, at 634 or whatever I am now equipped I can handle the tank pulling 2 groups in a HM without having to pop anything major.

I think the biggest recommendation I can make to low geared holy paladins is to get Saved by the Light. In a five man setting where both you and the tank are undergeared you have no idea how many times this will save you.

[Deleted]

I've been farming CM's, the only one that I found to be a real challenge was 2nd boss of Skyreach. I don't think I have healed that hard since Halion HM 25 when it was current.

Gearwise, if you are 610-620 ilvl you are going to need to have people CC. There are certain pulls in certain dungeons where if no CC is used and if you don't have a CD ready you won't be able to keep the tank up even bomb healing. So get repentance or be vocal in asking for CC. By 625 plus I didn't need CC, at 634 or whatever I am now equipped I can handle the tank pulling 2 groups in a HM without having to pop anything major.

I think the biggest recommendation I can make to low geared holy paladins is to get Saved by the Light. In a five man setting where both you and the tank are undergeared you have no idea how many times this will save you.

you doing any medals?

[Papi]

I love healing on my paladin. Then again, I haven't healed on anything else in along time.

I personally don't have many issues healing either, granted, if people are not following mechanics, it can be hard to heal up the party. As far as I am concerned, If you're mindlessly standing in fire, you should die in it. And I will let you die in it. 9 out of 10 times, you're going to die in it, regardless of which healer you have trying to heal you through it.

I personally love Holy Shock ( to proc Infusion of Light ) followed by a Flash of Light ( I'm glyphed for it - increased next heal 10% ) followed by the infused Holy Light.

If I don't proc Infusion of Light off Holy Shock, I am either Flashing someone who may NEEED it, but in most cases, I am hitting a Crusader Strike for Holy Power while Holy Shock is on cool down.

LOVE LOVE LOOOOOVE Divine Purpose. Makes it very easy to have Eternal Flame rolling on the entire 5man. Again, Eternal Flame after a Flash of Light, increases it by the 10%. <3

Holy Prism is amazing at the moment. Use it on CD when you need multiple people topped off. Oh sh|t moments too if someone is close to dying, but you need to focus a little more oomph into the tank.

my 2cents

- - - Updated - - -

Have to be mindful of the damage output and reprioritize healing when needed. I love that healers are not mindlessly keeping the groups topped. It can be challenging at times.

[Bodelightbringer]

Lord no, just farming and getting Bronze.

Araknath is a mofo though, I won't fault you that. I had to use LoH, HA, trinket, Hand of Sac 3 or 4 times, Gift of the Naaru (lulz), Devo Aura, AW, all while praying to every deity I could think of to get him down while asking the mage to pop Amplify magic. He is tough, however our MW & Priest both had a heck of a time on it as well. Our druid didn't do it.

I think that fight is the exception, I am 9/9CM from MoP. I think if I was going to put a group together and go for Gold right now that we could do it, specifically that I could do it as a healer. Other than Araknath, I haven't encountered a fight in CM that smart use of cool downs hasn't helped make workable. /shrug

[Deleted]

i mean so far i am also able to do them all, but man, it's just not comparable to a druid. i like playing paladin and prolly will end up using him in the raid, but i am currently leveling a druid to farm gold-CMs with him. again, it is doable as a pala, but just way more difficult due to lack of proper group healing. Prism is awesome, but also kinda situational.

[Bodelightbringer]

We knew 3 months ago that was going to be the case and that it was too far along in the beta for them to re-invent the wheel, so to speak. Numbers~wise in a raid environment, we will be fine. However our AoE healing and mobility are gutted, also our toolkit is flat out uninteresting. If it wasn't for the fact that our guild just needs a holy paladin I would have benched my Holy Paladin which I have been playing as a main since Kara. I have complaints about the class, however how we preform in a niche aspect of the game isn't one of them since i think i have the tools to get the job done.

We are somewhat off topic though, as I am certain our performance in CM gold pushes will not be a deciding factor for most people reading the thread. :P

[OrcinusDrake]

Glad to that we were not the only people having trouble with 2nd boss in skyreach. Granted our holy pally was scaled down to 609 and I don't think anyone had enchants on, but dude hits the group like a truck.

[Gumboy]

Other than that, I kinda like the state of holy paladins I've seen so far. I imagine this healing like a wet noodle will disappear over time as we gear up. I think that was the case with the last expansions or so.

That won't change in cms.