[Spoilers] Orgrim mood change within 10 minutes as Alliance?

[Deleted]

Why does Blizzard always disappoint? There were many things wrong with the battle for Shattrath and I've just noticed this one. I'm not hugely into lore, but I do care about it. Perhaps you can enlighten me. As Alliance you first see Orgrim in Talador giving a speech to Iron Horde orcs.

'Not long go, we were orcs of many clans, quibbling over scraps in a world that was ours for the taking. Now, as one clan, no enemy can hope to stand against the Iron Horde! We will crush their bones beneath our boots. We will burn their cities to ash! The iron tide washes over them!

Skip forward to the battle where Orgrim is on the ship with Blackhand.

Orgrim: I will not slay so many innocent people!
Blackhand: Innocent!
Orgrim: It is YOU who would make Draenor burn. It is YOU who must be stopped!


What gives with the sudden change in personality? First he wants to burn innocents cities to the ash the next he's stranding against the iron horde? It seems to me almost like a mistake and something that Durotan should have said.

[bmjclark]

It's not just as alliance. The exact same thing happens as horde. I'd imagine a few quests were cut out somewhere in between in development.

[Silverware]

Not much better on Horde side.

It just kind of happens. He appears in two or three quests and then he's dead.

Definitely a dropped storyline somewhere in here.

[Trassk]

It's just where the writing team stopped giving a shit about consistency, if they even give a crap, their just hire a fan fiction writer to write a short story to fill in the gaps they didn't make work

[Tyranader]

I am gunna take a wild guess as say Ogrim wasn't really on the side of the Iron Horde....

[Schmilblick]

Why add "spoilers" if you are telling everything in the title ?

[Temp name]

Because in the first quest he's still a subordinate and believing in what he's been told, in the next he's seen the truth for himself.. Or something along those lines?

[Arrashi]

It really feels like they never wanted to touch his character to begin with. But since they couldn't find a good way/reason to completely keep him out of story, instead they did....this. Really underwhelming, he feels like random generic minion killed by incompetence rather than former/future/alternate warchief.

[Darth-Piekus]

I was about to ask a Horde Player if the Horde side had a few more quests where it might explained the sudden attitude change of Doomhammer but since it is the same I say what the hell. I also have done the Alliance part where you see him First talking about total destruction and in his next appearance he's like Super honorable.

[eillas]

Originally, Orgrim played a role in Gorgrond. It was cut to change the zone.

[nonameelf]

The Shattrath questline seems like it was rushed and left incomplete.

[Deleted]

There is no surprise that continuity doesnt matter for blizzard.
Orgrim as Orgrim but i always pictured Gul'dan as a more tough guy. I mean he is tough now in WoD but he seems way too servile.
I pictured Gul'dan like some kind of Roose Bolton personality.

Look at him in this mission here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...HddWqJ4I#t=118

This is the Horde characters i always wanted, taunting Sargeras and what not! But no Horde gets green Jaina.

If you look at some of Gul'dan spells he did in the true timeline, i mean the guy could literally strangle Mannoroth in the air without a problem and enslave him.

[Ciddy]

Orgrim Doomhammer's WoD appearance was pretty disappointing in general.

[Jokubas]

If something wasn't cut, I'd be very surprised.

I wish Blizzard would go all or nothing on these things. It reminds me of Benedictus in Cataclysm. They ended up cutting all the development and build-up to his betrayal... but then had it happen anyway. So now this major character is dead, and you don't really care (and we only ever get Thrall's reaction to it, who potentially shouldn't even know who he is). Blizzard keeps talking about building more characters up for the future, so they can have new Illidans and Lich Kings and Deathwings, but they waste ones like Benedictus. I don't have a problem with his betrayal or him dying in the expansion, but only if it was actually a plot in the expansion. General Marcus Jonathan getting killed off-screen in Tides of War was another huge waste of a character that could easily have been turned major due to familiarity for Alliance players, whereas the impact is lost when his death is overshadowed by so many other things. Admiral Taylor might turn out to be another one. The presence of Wrathion and a necromancer hopefully foreshadow more relevance to that plot in the future, but I still have to ask... why did an Admiral come with us to fight a land war? That should have been Marcus Jonathan, but they already killed him off, and Hammond Clay hasn't built up the familiarity for it to have impact yet. That's what happens when you kill these characters off willy-nilly with half-finished plots.

If you can't do the full plot, don't do any of it. At least Doomhammer had a full plot in our timeline (as basic as it was considering the era it was told in), so this isn't as bad as it could have been, but it's still disappointing.

[Aquamonkey]

Why does Blizzard always disappoint? There were many things wrong with the battle for Shattrath and I've just noticed this one. I'm not hugely into lore, but I do care about it. Perhaps you can enlighten me. As Alliance you first see Orgrim in Talador giving a speech to Iron Horde orcs.

'Not long go, we were orcs of many clans, quibbling over scraps in a world that was ours for the taking. Now, as one clan, no enemy can hope to stand against the Iron Horde! We will crush their bones beneath our boots. We will burn their cities to ash! The iron tide washes over them!

Skip forward to the battle where Orgrim is on the ship with Blackhand.

Orgrim: I will not slay so many innocent people!
Blackhand: Innocent!
Orgrim: It is YOU who would make Draenor burn. It is YOU who must be stopped!


What gives with the sudden change in personality? First he wants to burn innocents cities to the ash the next he's stranding against the iron horde? It seems to me almost like a mistake and something that Durotan should have said.

Conquering your enemies is not the same as killing innocents.

In the MU, Orgrim was never okay with killing innocents. He just kept his mouth shut because he couldn't do anything about it.

[Deleted]

As a Horde player you have a quest with Durotan to confront Orgrim. Durotan is trying to persuade Orgrim that we are good guys and Iron Horde is bad, but he doesn't believe him. Later he found out what is Blackhand planning and stands against him.

[Brocksley]

As a Horde player you have a quest with Durotan to confront Orgrim. Durotan is trying to persuade Orgrim that we are good guys and Iron Horde is bad, but he doesn't believe him. Later he found out what is Blackhand planning and stands against him.

This is what I understood and I didn't feel that it was strange. Orgrimm was a good dude, he thought he was on the right team at first but then figured it out when he was asked to do dishonorable things, so he bailed. I don't see a problem horde side, probably confusing though for Alliance.

[Enosh]

Orgrim Doomhammer complaining about innocents is hilarious

[Phrev]

I'd guess that there is some underlying story that we're missing some of, or we'll have that explained in a future patch (in Tanaan, perhaps?). His silence was extremely odd and out of place. Something was either terribly cut out or there's more to the story.

[corebit]

Conquering your enemies is not the same as killing innocents.

In the MU, Orgrim was never okay with killing innocents. He just kept his mouth shut because he couldn't do anything about it.

What are cities populated of if not full of innocents? I know orcs are dumb but this Orgrim dude takes the cake. The cities and outposts taken in Talador weren't even military ones, just villages full of innocent draenei.

The way they portray Orgrim he is either blind as a bat, or oblivious beyond belief what his troops are doing under him.