[Resto] Druid Guide & Discussion (6.0.3)

[Sykkz]

Nah, I am bored of your unending and poorly thought out TC. I will let the statistics roll in, and enjoy.

Oh look, there comes the only logged kill of Kromok.. with a Druid. AND WTF! He even had the gall the be top HPS... didn't he get the memo??????? Oh look, the WF kill of Kilrogg.. a Druid! Wooo.. go Druids, leading edge! And look at that... silly Method... wasting gear on a Druid on all their first kills.... obviously not going for WF this tier.

What do they know.. they should have listened to Tiberria, the class balancinator!

Must say, Killrogg is alot of fun as a druid. At the start they are meh towards the end of the fight, they come into their own

[Brilynn]

Yeah, this thread kills me. And it happens in every forum. It was like this in monk forum when I used to main MW. "We're the worst, everyone find a new class, we're all gonna be sat." And then what happens? Oh right, we're fine. Haha, amazing. Quick sit all your druids!! You don't want them in raid pumping out the hps, definitely not! I am 100% on the boat of "bring the player." A competent druid is going to out heal a shaman any day, which is apparently what a bunch of people were convinced was better than druid. -shrug-

[Monkeyofcode]

Any guild that wants to clear mythic before the next tier/expac will bring the strongest healers. Druids are fine/good. The fact is pallies disc priest Rsham and MW do everything better. .

[flooressence]

Druids are more useful in HFC than we were in BRF. That being said so are monks and shamans.

I think we are still quite low but we now have a 4 set, the itemization is amazing for us (so much haste, lots of haste/mastery, really strong trinket).

The fights have more consistent damage (not all, but BRF was pretty bursty outside of blast furnace, gruul, and blackhand).

There's quite a few short fights, which is beneficial as our mana is the worst. Also back to itemization our bis cloak/neck/ring are all haste/spirit. So mana shouldn't be as huge of an issue as it was.

Overall we are better but like others have said, other healers are also better.

[Useful]

so haste is stronger in the new meta? i was running mastery build in BRF and was around 40-45 k hps. now I am getting replaced by our holy priest cos i do 35 k hps.
our yesterdays logs http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x...ph/details/14/
armory is in link

PS as u can see we are attempting normal Archimonde. so I am a casual player but i want to learn =)

[Tiberria]

Druids are more useful in HFC than we were in BRF. That being said so are monks and shamans.

I think we are still quite low but we now have a 4 set, the itemization is amazing for us (so much haste, lots of haste/mastery, really strong trinket).

The fights have more consistent damage (not all, but BRF was pretty bursty outside of blast furnace, gruul, and blackhand).

There's quite a few short fights, which is beneficial as our mana is the worst. Also back to itemization our bis cloak/neck/ring are all haste/spirit. So mana shouldn't be as huge of an issue as it was.

Overall we are better but like others have said, other healers are also better.

I think Druids are actually less useful in HFC than BRF, because we effectively have not really gained anything relative to other throughput healers, but have lost any option to Tranq while moving for the first time in 2 expansions. Monks and Shaman can use their throughput cooldown whenever it's needed, while Druids can't really use it in certain spots. There also isn't a significant difference in overall throughput between HTT/Revival/Tranq. Tranq should be significantly higher than the other two given its usage limitations (and the 8 second channel).

The initial Mythic numbers for Druids are pretty damning. It's a small sample size, but Druid representation has fallen significantly below Shaman at the highest level, and is at risk of falling below even Monks. Monks are the most comparable healer to Druids in terms of niche/role, and they are just destroying Druids from a throughput perspective right now. I don't think a 20% buff to Rejuv and a 20% buff to Tranq would be at all unreasonable at this point.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/8#metric=hps

[Supliftz]

The initial Mythic numbers for Druids are pretty damning. It's a small sample size, but Druid representation has fallen significantly below Shaman at the highest level, and is at risk of falling below even Monks. Monks are the most comparable healer to Druids in terms of niche/role, and they are just destroying Druids from a throughput perspective right now. I don't think a 20% buff to Rejuv and a 20% buff to Tranq would be at all unreasonable at this point.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/8#metric=hps

Mobile tranq compared with a small throughput buff is pretty reasonable for druids. Would make them more comparable to monks (still would be worse, but hey that's overpowered set bonuses for you). Druids still do have that strength with that power being on ST hots combined with massive % healing increases for fights like archimonde. That utility is sadly completely overshadowed by class trinket hpal, disc priests and extend life monks.

One thing I will say I don't really understand why druids are fine with not being able to cast Tranq on the move. There's no reason for this to exist when revival/htt are in the game.

[AngryLakitu]

You know, most people around these parts may belittle and disparage us casuals, but being sat is absolutely the definition of a "mythic/guild raiding problem".

As a freelance (read: pug-only) normal/heroic resto druid, I never have to worry about sitting on a bench; I get to play when I want. May not always get in a great group, but that's fine because I'm free to drop and find another with no negative repercussions.

The fact someone linked a graph that shows Druids have a marginal 7 point difference from the middle of the pack as "damning evidence" we are "in a bad spot" is laughable when all groups barely have 150 parses (yes, I know you qualified it as early, but then you should also temper your exasperation and conclusion). There will always be a first and there will always be a last. As long as the disparity between the two is A) small or B) compensated, there is no problem. If you want to be concerned about balance based on those graphs, go over to the Holy Priest forum and offer your condolences.

Mythic progression world firsts will bring whatever they can to to get an edge. If someone can minmax a MW to do more total healing than an rDruid, there is nothing wrong with that and it isn't a bad thing. It just means that MW can eek out more in the current meta.

If you are being honest and realistic with yourself and your choice still comes down to sitting on the bench or changing your class and -- this is the important part -- that is a problem for you, then fix the problem by finding a different group; you aren't the problem, the group is.

If you are being honest and realistic with yourself and your choice is you want to be in the most bleeding edge progression raiding group and -- this is the important part -- that is important to you, then accept the fact that you may need to sit on the bench or change your class because your group is going to do whatever it can to be the best.

The long/short of it is class balance is a tricky science and there will always be a "winner and loser" when you have a subset of your population that needs to be the best. There are tons of guilds out there that do high level progression and take the best player, not the best class.

I know it seems like this is a problem that "shouldn't be a problem to begin with, Blizzard should balance properly so I don't have to sit", but the WoW playerbase has proven time and time again that it will always find the best/optimal path for [insert game mechanic here].

[Hypasonic]

Mobile tranq compared with a small throughput buff is pretty reasonable for druids. Would make them more comparable to monks (still would be worse, but hey that's overpowered set bonuses for you). Druids still do have that strength with that power being on ST hots combined with massive % healing increases for fights like archimonde. That utility is sadly completely overshadowed by class trinket hpal, disc priests and extend life monks.

One thing I will say I don't really understand why druids are fine with not being able to cast Tranq on the move. There's no reason for this to exist when revival/htt are in the game.

I would actually glady take a glyph that basically did the following: "Your tranquility heals for 15% less, but can now be cast while moving" I mean, it overheals in the majority of situations, and you can increase its power dramatically by coupling it with ToL and/or HoTW.

[Tiberria]

I would actually glady take a glyph that basically did the following: "Your tranquility heals for 15% less, but can now be cast while moving" I mean, it overheals in the majority of situations, and you can increase its power dramatically by coupling it with ToL and/or HoTW.

It shouldn't even need to have a glyph/penalty attached to it. Disc, Paladins, Shaman and Monks all get to use their raid cooldown without any requirement to stand still (let alone a channel). There is no real justification for Tranq (and Divine Hymn) to have those restrictions unless they also do significantly more healing than HTT and Revival. The reality is Tranq heals for about the same effective healing as HTT/Revival in most realistic situations (and often less), giving it no upside for being more limited/difficult to use.

[Deleted]

Didn't Tiberria say pre patch that the druid class trinket would be the worst one after holy priest?

[Tiberria]

Didn't Tiberria say pre patch that the druid class trinket would be the worst one after holy priest?

The Druid class trinket is not worth using in 90%+ of situations. People just see the ~20% healing that the proc does and jump to the conclusion that it's amazing. However, that's only because all of the value of that trinket is in that proc; it has no regen and no static stats. If you actually math out the throughput added by something like Autoclave or Elemental Talisman (extra Wild Growth casts from the mana savings, plus throughput from the proc), you find that they actually come out at or above the class trinket in terms of throughput; that throughput is just less easy to see on logs. Generally, you don't even break even using the class trinket vs i.e Autoclave until the class trinket is doing 20%+ of your total healing. Even then, if the throughput is similar, I would still take a regen trinket with the flexibility to choose what I cast with the extra regen and when over a random passive healing proc. If I had a class trinket, I would only use it on fights where it is adding 25%+ total healing. A class trinket that is weaker than previous tier trinkets the majority of the time is a weak class trinket.

On top of that, both Phylactery and the Leech trinket outperform the class trinket in 99% of situations (and actually outperform the BRF trinkets too).

[ryklin]

I mean the class trinket is basically the thok trinket with no int proc, it's alright but you'll notice it doing very little on fights where people aren't stacked (this is also contributed to by raid size decrease), which is unfortunately just too many this tier, imo it's not so much a bad trinket but just a terrible tier for it, even the fights where you could stack to benefit from it, you're losing healing for handling other skills (helps with kormokk hands but not pounding, helps with soul feast but not the rest of gorefiend, etc.)

I'm unaware of how stuff will work on mythic for a lot of fights, but I still think there'll be some where it's usable

also for most fights where the leech trinket doesn't do too well, intuition's gift isn't looking too awful even

the holy priest, drood, and monk trinkets are all very niche though, I really like what the holy priest trinket presents for rolling couple renews on a small set of people though, I think it really fits into increasing the potential of a good holy priest (it's not great for straight aoe healing imo though)

[Deleted]

so haste is stronger in the new meta? i was running mastery build in BRF and was around 40-45 k hps. now I am getting replaced by our holy priest cos i do 35 k hps.

armory is in link

PS as u can see we are attempting normal Archimonde. so I am a casual player but i want to learn =)

Yeah you should run Haste in this Content, as mentioned a few posts above from someone!

[Teramelle]

Yeah you should run Haste in this Content, as mentioned a few posts above from someone!

Any idea what the balance should be? Like, should I just go for full stacking haste, even if it means my Mastery lags behind in percentage? By which I mean, buffed I'm around 33%~ Haste (give or take) and 29%~ Mastery, but I've got a few Mastery enchants to bring the stats closer together; should I just be stacking full Haste even if my Mastery drops significantly lower percentage-wise? I always felt like I should keep it in balance, like, as close to the same percentages as possible - 30% / 30%, for example - but I feel like that might not be the ideal thing to do. I've never been too good with this stat weight stuff, and now I'm even more uncertain with HFC.

[Piffweaver]

So my druid apparently stole all my monks rng, and I'm almost at 4pc after just a handful of normal kills... Anyways, what ended up happening with the glyph of blooming debate? I remember hearing it was a reduced proc therefore just extra gcds. It doesn't seem that way after playing around with it, does anyone happen to know?

[Tiberria]

Any idea what the balance should be? Like, should I just go for full stacking haste, even if it means my Mastery lags behind in percentage? By which I mean, buffed I'm around 33%~ Haste (give or take) and 29%~ Mastery, but I've got a few Mastery enchants to bring the stats closer together; should I just be stacking full Haste even if my Mastery drops significantly lower percentage-wise? I always felt like I should keep it in balance, like, as close to the same percentages as possible - 30% / 30%, for example - but I feel like that might not be the ideal thing to do. I've never been too good with this stat weight stuff, and now I'm even more uncertain with HFC.

There is no real compelling reason to attempt to "balance" haste and mastery. If haste is better for you than mastery (and it is better for most Resto Druids in most situations), you should just use haste enchants and gems and prioritize haste gear of the same ilvl. The argument that you should stack a stat but only to a certain point comes from the fact that stats have a diminishing return and smaller relative gain the more of a % rating that you get. For example, if you have 0% mastery, adding 1% mastery is a full 1% throughput gain. However, if you have 99% crit, it is only a 0.5% gain, whereas other secondary stats would start to become more valuable past a certain threshold because of how they interact.

However, in any practical situation, you can't stack haste high enough (especially in WoD without gem sockets on everything and reforging) that it hits enough of a diminishing return to flip the stat priority of adding more. Just stack haste as much as possible and don't worry about it.

- - - Updated - - -

So my druid apparently stole all my monks rng, and I'm almost at 4pc after just a handful of normal kills... Anyways, what ended up happening with the glyph of blooming debate? I remember hearing it was a reduced proc therefore just extra gcds. It doesn't seem that way after playing around with it, does anyone happen to know?

It's a reduced proc rate with Glyph of Blooming in use. Basically, it results in the 2 piece healing remaining the same but Lifebloom requiring more than 50% more GCDs to maintain (50% less duration, plus never being able to extend it). The glyph isn't worth using in any situation.

[Piffweaver]

Thanks good to know, that'd be horrible

[Tiberria]

Apparently I am going to be going Resto Shaman for Mythic progression - or at least was asked to. Even though my Shaman is only 695 ivl, a 12 ilvl lower Shaman is significantly more useful than a Resto Druid.

[ryklin]

There is a balance of stats you want mathematically speaking, you should want slightly more haste than mastery in regards to % total (since you start with 5% haste and 16% mastery with no gear, obviously this takes much more haste)

past that, you want about 20% less crit and multi than you have of those 2, this takes more crit than multi, vers is so low it'll be irrelevant for the whole xpac

this of course only takes into account wanting hpm for total raid healing, haste has some advantage in allowing faster rejuv spam and casts and mastery in stronger tranqs and direct heals (also, since it's relevant this tier, and I cant get on to test it right now, I don't know if mastery benefits lifebloom bloom)

basically, go download hamlet's healercalcs if you want to see how gear will affect your spells if you don't want to do math yourself for when you consider upgrades