Ranged vs Melee - Who is in favor of getting into groups?

[DraCurse]

Hi

I was told WoD was suppose to me more fair towards melees, in therms of "sorry we only have spot for 1 melee".

It feels like ranged classes are still more valuable than melees, and I'm having a hard time getting into my guild CM runs.
I also often see in trade chat things like "LFM - bla bla CM - Need 2 ranged" I'm fairly concerned for melee classes.

People always want more ranged dps than melee dps, I thought WoD was suppose to make it more 50/50.

Maybe I heard wrong?
What do other people experience?

[Ryme]

It's always ranged over melee, however not all ranged are equal.

Melee simply have too many disadvantages from construction, then on top of that, they have to deal with outrageous mechanics like whirlwinds, boss aoe, cleaves, air phases, charges, stacking issues etc. Rogues have niche use and high survivability, outside of that, you generally don't want melee.

[h4rr0d]

Patchwerk DPS style, melee >>> ranged. Sadly, at least in CMs, ranged >>> melee.
For example Shadowmoon Burial Grounds:
1st boss - 3 out of 4 mechanics favor ranged: dagger (easier to avoid), eclipse (can just stand on top of one of the runes and continue DPSing boss), adds (doesn't have to run to the add, risking damage from dagger)
2nd boss - I'll call this a wash
3rd boss - 2 out of 4 mechanics favor ranged: inhale (can dps when standing on the sticky spot), boss swapping position/adds (again, no downtime due to movement)
4th boss - 1 out of 3 mechanics favors ranged: the corpse wall is much easier and safer to DPS as ranged than melee.
Apart from the void pillars on the last boss, where I'm not sure how exactly they work (if they spawn on ranged, deal damage based on proximity or w/e), rest of the abilities in this dungeon affect everyone equally because they are group wide AOE or a frontal cone attack, which shouldn't affect anyone.

I can recall only 2 bosses where I'd rather be melee than ranged from the entire xpac: last boss in Auch, because it seems the infernal prioritizes chasing ranged over melee and the wind wall on ground thingy boss in Skyreach. Other than that it seems ranged classes can ignore or are not affected as much by majority of mechanics.

[kamuimac]

Hi

I was told WoD was suppose to me more fair towards melees, in therms of "sorry we only have spot for 1 melee".

It feels like ranged classes are still more valuable than melees, and I'm having a hard time getting into my guild CM runs.
I also often see in trade chat things like "LFM - bla bla CM - Need 2 ranged" I'm fairly concerned for melee classes.

People always want more ranged dps than melee dps, I thought WoD was suppose to make it more 50/50.

Maybe I heard wrong?
What do other people experience?

blame blizzard for it for making much much more mechanics in those dungeons which punish melee much more then ranged - face it cms are easier with only range so people take only range if only they can - why should they make their own life harder cause devs in blizz cant created equal difficulty fo melee and for ranged.

[Vashi]

Yesterday I got prot warr, rogue, retri paladin and monk DPSers. As healer that was not fun But at last a challenge.

[Manabomb]

Patchwerk DPS style, melee >>> ranged. Sadly, at least in CMs, ranged >>> melee.
For example Shadowmoon Burial Grounds:
1st boss - 3 out of 4 mechanics favor ranged: dagger (easier to avoid), eclipse (can just stand on top of one of the runes and continue DPSing boss), adds (doesn't have to run to the add, risking damage from dagger)
2nd boss - I'll call this a wash
3rd boss - 2 out of 4 mechanics favor ranged: inhale (can dps when standing on the sticky spot), boss swapping position/adds (again, no downtime due to movement)
4th boss - 1 out of 3 mechanics favors ranged: the corpse wall is much easier and safer to DPS as ranged than melee.
Apart from the void pillars on the last boss, where I'm not sure how exactly they work (if they spawn on ranged, deal damage based on proximity or w/e), rest of the abilities in this dungeon affect everyone equally because they are group wide AOE or a frontal cone attack, which shouldn't affect anyone.

I can recall only 2 bosses where I'd rather be melee than ranged from the entire xpac: last boss in Auch, because it seems the infernal prioritizes chasing ranged over melee and the wind wall on ground thingy boss in Skyreach. Other than that it seems ranged classes can ignore or are not affected as much by majority of mechanics.

1st boss - Learn to move from dagger, that isn't hard. You lose dps standing on a rune, sure, but that's more time for FoF or Dragon Roar to come off CD. Also see crackling derp lightning and other ranged abilities. Adds? Really? It's called a gap closer. Every melee still has more than one, and they are all good.

2nd boss - A wash as in melee are actually superior, or they are equal?

3rd boss - Again, just like rune from first boss, waiting for cooldowns and throwing whatever ranged you can, but the adds, I again point to gap closers. We have them for a reason.

4th boss - If you can't dps corpse wall correctly as a melee, then maybe you should be playing ranged.

TL;DR ranged are only better than melee if you're a toothless moron that can't actually do mechanics of a boss fight and/or said boss fight legitimately favors ranged (as in flight phases, unavoidable AoE near the bosses ass/side, mechanic requiring to move to X spot and stop dpsing.)

[Slant]

The corpse wall can't be done as a melee? Why? I've done that achievement as unholy dk, it never occurred to me that I was doing something wrong and should've died.

[Tekkommo]

Yeah you don't want 2 melee DPS in a 5 man.

[Goradan]

It's always ranged over melee, however not all ranged are equal.

Melee simply have too many disadvantages from construction, then on top of that, they have to deal with outrageous mechanics like whirlwinds, boss aoe, cleaves, air phases, charges, stacking issues etc. Rogues have niche use and high survivability, outside of that, you generally don't want melee.

Agree and that is one thing that annoys me about blizz. Melees should have some tankyness because they are close to the boss and will take more damage in most cases. being treated as a caster or ranged with melees range is a joke.

[Deleted]

I've ran with a feral druid in most of my guild groups and we tend to either have 2 melee 1 ranged or 2 ranged 1 melee so it evens out overall.

Healers haven't complained about one being harder than the other to heal. DPS/Damage is overall the same on boss's, some slight deviations but not significant amounts.

People that are asking for ranged only and no melee probably have bad experiences with melee in their minds. As for melee finding it really difficult, none of the melee in my guild have complained about it yet so i dunno, learn how to operate your class around the mechanics maybe?

[Soisoisoi]

Any new content is always a ballache for melee. Stupid amounts of instant kill stuff on the floor next to the mobs we need to be in range of to hit, where ranged just get to stand still. If the tank isn't great at moving FOR the melee then it's even worse.

Ranged have it easier, as always, but currently melee are able to do more DPS to make up for that.

[h4rr0d]

1st boss - Learn to move from dagger, that isn't hard. You lose dps standing on a rune, sure, but that's more time for FoF or Dragon Roar to come off CD. Also see crackling derp lightning and other ranged abilities. Adds? Really? It's called a gap closer. Every melee still has more than one, and they are all good.

2nd boss - A wash as in melee are actually superior, or they are equal?

3rd boss - Again, just like rune from first boss, waiting for cooldowns and throwing whatever ranged you can, but the adds, I again point to gap closers. We have them for a reason.

4th boss - If you can't dps corpse wall correctly as a melee, then maybe you should be playing ranged.

TL;DR ranged are only better than melee if you're a toothless moron that can't actually do mechanics of a boss fight and/or said boss fight legitimately favors ranged (as in flight phases, unavoidable AoE near the bosses ass/side, mechanic requiring to move to X spot and stop dpsing.)

Gap closer on 1st boss is not that easy and safe to use, as if you charge/pounce over daggers (or land in them), you are taking the damage. Same goes for the purple runes. Also DKs, rets and enh shamans don't have gap closer, though their ranged capabilities are much greater to offset that. And then obviously the add ignores daggers when moving, so, yeah...
2nd boss is equal
3rd boss - throwing stuff vs full DPS? Really? That's just ridiculous.
4rd boss - still, there is much bigger potential of taking extra damage as melee
Sure, if played perfectly, all mechanics are avoidable and often don't cost too much dps.

Anyway, my point is, to perform equally well in 5mans, melee players have to bring much more spatial awareness and general playing skill than their ranged counterparts to provide the same value for their group. The potential for losing DPS and taking unnecessary damage is much bigger for melee class than it is for ranged class.
If you are pugging for DPS to fill your CM group and want as smooth run as possible with a pug, it is only logical to prefer ranged over melee. Why risking bringing someone who will take avoidable damage (which melee is much more likely to take) when you can just pug for a mage...

[Deleted]

Going from hunter in MoP to a rogue in WoD.. yeah, i have to pay a lot more attention now

[Deleted]

If you know boss mechanics, melee is not an issue. Melee can also make more dps because they can move while dpsing. I would imagine that high ranked guilds would stack melee. Heavy movement encounters heavily disfavors casters especially in WoD.

[Deleted]

Iv felt that my warr has been in a better pos then my boomkin in most of these aspects.

Melees who tend to whine are th ones who think that they're never suppose to move, as allready mentioned we got lots of movement tools and as ranged you have to move quite a bit - just not in and out of melee range but for all ranged but hunters movement=downtime the same downtime melee might suffer moving to a new target but a meelee can avoid other mechanics by sidesteps and not lose any time aswell.

[Soisoisoi]

1st boss -

Learn to move from dagger, that isn't hard.
Not hard, no, besides the fact you have to run either around or through to get to the adds or runes which is DPS wasted on both targets. Ranged win that easily.

You lose dps standing on a rune, sure, but that's more time for FoF or Dragon Roar to come off CD.
Whilst you lose out on all other damage instead of continuing to do damage like a ranged?

Also see crackling derp lightning and other ranged abilities.
You are joking, right? Do no damage and have no energy for when you can hit the boss again. GG.

Adds? Really? It's called a gap closer. Every melee still has more than one, and they are all good.
True, we do. I can FSK right through all the daggers oh wait... Oh fine I'll run right AROUND it all, oh wait... Either way, damage is taken and DPS is lost.

Some of your answers are just silly... And that's just the first boss.

TL;DR ranged are only better than melee if you're a toothless moron that can't actually do mechanics of a boss fight and/or said boss fight legitimately favors ranged (as in flight phases, unavoidable AoE near the bosses ass/side, mechanic requiring to move to X spot and stop dpsing.)

Which is most bosses in the game. PvE has always favoured ranged, everyone else knows it, if you can't see that and feel the need to call people morons then I think you need to open your eyes. The only time a fight favours melee is if the target is in melee range 100% of the time, with no crap to move out of or wait for the tank to move out of. I'm not saying it doesn't hurt for ranged to have to move out of shit too, but look at it like this:

Have to move out of general crap:
Hurts ranged
Hurts Melee

Have to swap targets out of melee range:
Hurts melee depending on class (Monk/Rogue/Feral/Warrior fine; Ret/DK/Enh are fucked)
Fine for ranged

Have to swap targets with crap between:
Hurts melee
Fine for ranged

Tank is slow at moving boss out of crap:
Hurts melee
Fine for ranged

Tank likes to spin around like a retard:
Hurts melee
Fine for ranged

Boss puts something we all need to go stand in out of melee range (Soulbinder Nyami in Auchindoun as a quick example)
Hurts melee
Fine for ranged


... need I go on, there's countless things I could list. It's very rare ranged get affected by anything outside of generic void-zone shit which melee also deal with, and more. Melee also have to rely on others, mostly tanks, to be competent. The only upside to melee is that you get to keep hitting on the move (which is really only a benefit as of this expansion) at points where EVERYONE has to move, that is of course assuming you get to stay in range of the boss and the Tank doesn't drag said boss through crap, or leave the tail-end of the boss in crap.

[Deleted]

Again, i reiterate. If you're really struggling that badly as a melee then roll a ranged class and try that out and see how it feels?

You might surprise yourself to learn that it's you and not the class type.

Edit: Soi, most of your issues seem to be fixed by having a capable tank or better understanding of mechanics. Not really a QQ ranged are too good, help us poor melee issue.

[Soisoisoi]

Again, i reiterate. If you're really struggling that badly as a melee then roll a ranged class and try that out and see how it feels?

You might surprise yourself to learn that it's you and not the class type.

If that's directed at me, then no, I'm not struggling - simply pointing out the flaws that affect melee where ranged are fine. I play melee because I prefer the faster pace, and when I play a ranged alt it's just so much of a joke to play.

E to your edit:

Edit: Soi, most of your issues seem to be fixed by having a capable tank or better understanding of mechanics. Not really a QQ ranged are too good, help us poor melee issue.

Most = 2/6? Especially out of the god-knows how many you can list for being a melee.

[Deleted]

ignore him, melees are terrible.. it is no suprise that the top times in CM are done without melees despite melees having good AOE capabilities.

I laugh at his suggestion that standing away from a boss in a rune to recover CDs is fine while ranged nuke like nothing happened.

[Soisoisoi]

I laugh at his suggestion that standing away from a boss in a rune to recover CDs is fine while ranged nuke like nothing happened.

Yeah I had a good giggle too. Of course cooldowns only recover whilst you're not hitting anything, how could we be so silly! It must be especially true as a Rogue where every finisher you use adds time onto your cooldowns... Stopping DPS ftw!