Melee and no CC - Rarely get to do CM

[Tojara]

I do them as blood, but I can't see why a single melee isn't desirable for CMs at the moment. They all have little things that make them really good this time around, and aside from a couple bosses/trash packs, melee is really good in CMs. A lot of it has to do with our DPS tuning at the moment, and the heavy mobility of some of the boss encounters that hurt most range (not hunters).

Honestly when I step back I can see why nobody would want DKs in a pug group. A lot of pug groups just go slow with the goal of completing the dungeon for the daily, and for that purpose CC is actually quite good.

However if you want to get golds as a DPS DK you shouldn't have a problem. DKs are 100% viable for them and in quite few instances probably one of the better options for many of the CMs. There are some pretty stupid things you can dark simulacrum in the new instances which is a lot of the reasons DPS DKs would be sought after. Aside from that DK single target is still nice, our AoE is crazy, and mass grip/remorseless winter are really good for CMs that care about time (mass grip is probably the better option if you actually have a solid stun in your group already).

While I hear a lot of talk about RW, mass grip really is the shining talent for CMs. If you're going for optimal pulls and such, mass grip still acts as an interrupt (without DRing other stuns), and more importantly it performs something no other class can bring, that being a neat little pile. The side effect of the ability that is often overlooked is that it saves your group a massive amount of interrupts while you try to get ranged casters in close. For instance, we pull the entire room of the first boss in everbloom, I'd imagine that would be a nightmare without mass grip.

No idea if they are the most ideal for top of the line world first times, but they certainly aren't in the bottom tier as far as class selection goes.

[Gandrake]

Zaela is just as punishing a fight for ranged as it is melee if people are too lazy to move. Melee just lose downtime if tanks do the 'I'm out of fire but let's tank her in it so melee have to either run off or be in front of the boss'

naa they just stand there in the perfect spot and roll their face across the keyboard while melee do all of the footwork.

Having a composition heavily composed of ranged will simplify many boss fights and their mechanics because they won't have to deal with them as much if not at all. It is just that simple; it's really not even worth having an argument about.

[Slant]

My guild mates keep asking me to do CMs with them. Doing decent AoE and combat ressing seems to be viable for CMs.

[Maxweii]

naa they just stand there in the perfect spot and roll their face across the keyboard while melee do all of the footwork.

Having a composition heavily composed of ranged will simplify many boss fights and their mechanics because they won't have to deal with them as much if not at all. It is just that simple; it's really not even worth having an argument about.

If a drake lines up with them they have to move just as we would, and they are more likely to get hit by the chain pull by the drake riders which moves them out of position and usually, into fire.
There's a lot of mechanics that don't even target melee, but target ranged. For example a melee on the first boss in Everbloom does almost nothing that fight, but ranged have to worry about placement of the bramble ground effect thing and where it's placed/moving out of it.

[creamo42]

News flash: Wrath heroics were fairly tough at launch when most of us were still in t6.

[Northern Goblin]

News flash: Wrath heroics were fairly tough at launch when most of us were still in t6.

No they weren't, Wrath heroics were a complete AoE cheesefest from the get go. TBC heroics at the beginning were mostly overtuned as hell, sure Slave Pens and Mechanar were easy, but original Shadow Labyrinth? Triple hit trash mobs in Blood Furnace? Corridors of Doom in Shattered Halls* the entire of Arcatraz.

The only difficulty in Wrath heroics were people who didn't know how to Drake in the Oculus, or you were instantly aiming to do all achievements at the start.

TBC heroics had encounters and trash more difficult than the first half of Karazhan.




*Admittedly if you had a decent geared Prot Paladin, this became exceptionally easy.

[Warpwolf]

I'm amused at the little war I started with an off handed comment that is likely affected by rose tinted glasses and years of faulty memory. Regardless, thanks for the answers, already building a blood set even though I prefer to DPS. Want those gold items!

[Tojara]

Please stop saying WoTLK heroics were hard, they weren't. We rolled through them in T6 gear in addition to rolling through the majority of Naxx 10/25 with a lot of TBC on. Why? Because they were easy. When I talk about WoTLK heroics I do mean the launch ones, the ones added when ICC dropped were actually somewhat challenging, at least one of them was anyways.

The only place that I heard people complain about in trade/general was HoL, and that solely was because Loki did a lot of damage if your group didn't understand the encounter.

[Raiju]

I'm amused at the little war I started with an off handed comment that is likely affected by rose tinted glasses and years of faulty memory. Regardless, thanks for the answers, already building a blood set even though I prefer to DPS. Want those gold items!

It's rose tinted glasses because you were bad back then?

The heroics were an absolute joke. HoL and ahn'kahet are the only ones even worth mentioning, and the damage in ahn'kahet was 90% avoidable.

[Xucuroz]

Just going to echo what others have said. Remorseless Winter is crazy good for CMs. In fact if groups plan on getting good times, the traditional sap/polymorpth type CCs just waste precious time. Where as Remorseless Winter and pretty much any AoE stun is by far the strongest. Classes like shadow priests that basically have none of anything and don't even have strong aoe damage are in a far worse postion.

That said most groups won't run the risk of taking a melee so i understand why you'd struggle. My group for Cms typically runs with 2 melee dps and while i personally think that's a terrible comp, the dk in the group is always one of the most valuable players, thanks in no small part to Remorseless Winter, gripping mobs back, combat res.. the list goes on.

Blood is an easier option to getting in groups, but then again, theres way way more responsibility on the tank in Cms. It's not a viable option for most people i'd say, unless you are an above average player.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Wrath heroics hard...lol even the last 3 were a joke unless u had exactly the ilvl required to do them.

Anyways, people are just that silly nowadays. You dont need a perfect comp to do the daily cm, all you need is time, and one person that can cc which could even be the tank or healer.

[aggixx]

Zaela is just as punishing a fight for ranged as it is melee if people are too lazy to move. Melee just lose downtime if tanks do the 'I'm out of fire but let's tank her in it so melee have to either run off or be in front of the boss'

Melee have to run out for every single Cyclone, Ranged only have to act on the Cyclone if it targets them or if someone else is a dumbass and kites it into them.

[Equoowe]

It was still far, far harder than any 5-man content that's been in the game since.

Yea BC heroic 5 mans are harder then challenge modes...

[vian]

Remorseless winter is gold, so is Deathgrip and Ghoul Stun.

[Holofernes]

Yea BC heroic 5 mans are harder then challenge modes...

actually they were. Nothing in cm is hard, only thing that makes it seem hard is the timer.

Karazahn attunement with the back than current gear, in slab, alcatraz featured funny bosses. like 11 wipes per boss on a regular basis, because of oneshot mechanics that had to be figured out by trial and error. No readup in a dungeonjournal. Back than we had to figur out shit ourselfes.
And: getting charged from a felguard in blue dungeon set in blood furnace is fun. U didnt even survive it as a tank.U had to hope to kill one mob of the group before it wiped you, and than the next one and so on. Things got nerfed, yep. but all those "everything easy" guys never did it in unnerfed state, i suppose. Like the "moonkin tank". Lol i want to see this guy tanking 7 mob group in shattered halls, while eating a stun I knew the mobs so hard as a warrior tank, that i could tell when the stun is comming to shieldwall it beforehand. That kind of knowledge comes from many wipes

I didnt wipe 11 times to any challenge mode boss in order to be able to defeat it.

And yea dks are very good for cm, as long as they dont use necrotic plague, it messes arround with my frogs all the time.

[Equoowe]

actually they were. Nothing in cm is hard, only thing that makes it seem hard is the timer.

They really weren't, what people considered to be hard back then is now seen as trivial, this goes for more then just heroic 5 mans.

[Milocow]

death's advance or asphyxiate for CMs?

[Bakis]

BC heroics mmmm that was the prime of this game. Magisters Terrace when it was just launched now that shit was tough, the PvP event, holy crap SO GOOD

- - - Updated - - -

death's advance or asphyxiate for CMs?

Not much use for DA, certainly not something turning the table.

[Risale]

News flash: Wrath heroics were fairly tough at launch when most of us were still in t6.

Please entire guilds cleared Naxx while still wearing their gear from BT and SwP.
Going into LK hc's was easymode from day one, half the mobs were undead so running with a pala tank and/or a OP as fuck dk tank/dps and hunters that could volley everything at stupid dps numbers (pre 3.08 nerf) and you were golden.

[Snaige]

Remorseless winter is amazing, everyone loves it. Plus, some of the most difficult trash pulls can be made trivial by using the army. Dk is a very desirable dps.