Sub PvE questions

[Big Daddy Longstroke]

Is using a slow OH with sub actually viable? I have tried finding info on it, but have not found much.

[Deleted]

Hi, I've been raiding as Sub for a while and thought I could provide some feedback :

Stats : Multistrike>=Mastery>rest is very close>Haste

-> Multistrike makes your Rupture tick faster and causes you to gain more ticks over the fight, and as we know, 1 full rupture > 1 evis (even with FW up)

-> Mastery affects all your finishers and boosts your ability to cleave through Rupture tab and Crimson Tempest spam (something worthy to note about this ability is that the bleed efect STACKS if you cast it multiple times; I've had up to 10k ticks on Tectus motes).

Opener : I start asking for heals to stack cp's prepull (which Hpallies usuallly do to charge up their shields), it is easily done by multihotting or with a ground-aoe-healing zone.
1) Prepull : At 2s, SnD + prepot + stealth
2) Premed + Ambush + HaT proc (=5cps)
3) Rupture
4) Wait for full energy then ShR + ShD (with on use) + Ambush until 5cp + Evis
5) MfD + Evis
6) Spam ambush/evis
7) Refresh rupture (due to multistrikes coming from trinket proc + own stats)

At this point I usually pool energy and spend any stored cp on refreshing snd. Then, as soon as premed is up again, Vanish + Premed + Ambush, spend all energy while FW is up then PREP.

Repeat.

Why do I dance asap on the pull? Because (at least in my opinion) you gain more damage and burst when lust, prepot, trinkets, anything else are up during the first reflection + dance than waiting until the first FW is over to do it.

Regarding the question of a slow OH being viable, it is about the stats on the weapon being better than gaining a bit of extra damage through poisons.

[intrinsc]

Asking a healer to roll a HOT on you before a pull will still give you CP up until the total 10CP(5 normal, 5 anticipation charges). I was doing this on our butcher progression.

[Mirean]

Is using a slow OH with sub actually viable? I have tried finding info on it, but have not found much.

Simming my character shows me, that slow OH is indeed viable and there is not too much difference. Using 2 identical weapons (stat-wise, http://www.wowhead.com/item=110038&bonus=524 and http://www.wowhead.com/item=115323 with haste, mastery), simcraft gives me roughly 81 dps loss by using slower offhand. However, if you equip a higher ilvl slow off-hand (in my case http://www.wowhead.com/item=113591&bonus=566 ), simcraft shows me 252 dps increase.

Because you only lose very little dps by switching to slower off-hand with same stats, I'd say it might be better to equip slower off-hand with better stats / higher item level. I'm certainly doing so with my Bladefist


In case you were interested in results:
http://goupload2.wu.cz/17/752713-10-...30_dagger.html
http://goupload2.wu.cz/15/754552-10-...-630_slow.html
http://goupload2.wu.cz/23/775238-10-...-670_slow.html

[Deleted]

As far as I know we should use ShR, then apply Rupture ( Our Clone will have its own Rupture) and then start Dancing.

[T18Z]

As far as I know we should use ShR, then apply Rupture ( Our Clone will have its own Rupture) and then start Dancing.

I don't think ShR benefits from the increased damage via bleed application. Does the rupture stay on the target for the full duration or only as long as the ShR is up? If it disappears when the reflection does then there's no point to using rupture, best to start with an evis or ambush.

[Deleted]

I don't think ShR benefits from the increased damage via bleed application. Does the rupture stay on the target for the full duration or only as long as the ShR is up? If it disappears when the reflection does then there's no point to using rupture, best to start with an evis or ambush.

ShR doesn't get her sanguinary vein from rupture as far as I know.
And no, when she expires also her rupture fades (debuff doesn't expires but there's no damage).

[Big Daddy Longstroke]

Simming my character shows me, that slow OH is indeed viable and there is not too much difference. Using 2 identical weapons (stat-wise, http://www.wowhead.com/item=110038&bonus=524 and http://www.wowhead.com/item=115323 with haste, mastery), simcraft gives me roughly 81 dps loss by using slower offhand. However, if you equip a higher ilvl slow off-hand (in my case http://www.wowhead.com/item=113591&bonus=566 ), simcraft shows me 252 dps increase.

Because you only lose very little dps by switching to slower off-hand with same stats, I'd say it might be better to equip slower off-hand with better stats / higher item level. I'm certainly doing so with my Bladefist


In case you were interested in results:
http://goupload2.wu.cz/17/752713-10-...30_dagger.html
http://goupload2.wu.cz/15/754552-10-...-630_slow.html
http://goupload2.wu.cz/23/775238-10-...-670_slow.html

I am in the same situation with a bladefist being way higher ilvl than the 630 dagger I had previously, thank you for the response.

[kilj]

Btw I enjoyed reading all the prepot then stealth.... You can prepot in stealth now

[RemJay24]

You can prepot in stealth now

I want to stress this. I remember hearing about it on the beta, but forgot until my third raid. Woot!

Another question: Sometimes ShD and ShR don't always line up for me (sometimes because I am not popping my 2nd ShD as soon as its up, due to some mechanics of the fight). Should I pop ShR alone, with other CD's, or should I ONLY use it with ShD?

Is popping Rupture in ShD/ShR a DPS gain or loss? I'm finding it a little harder this expac to manage SnD/Rupture/Hemo when ShD is coming off CD. Needing to re-fresh them because they could expire at the end of ShD doesn't seem ideal... and more Multistrike seems like a nightmare in managing this later on.

Regardless- still doing great on the meters and loving Sub as much as I always have.

[mongoose6]

So I played sub in MOP and did very well with it, but I feel like I'm missing something key in WOD. I just now picked up my Rogue (been bear tanking). My Ilvl is 628 and I'm doing 15K on normal Kargash. Shadowcraft has me at 19K and I usually beat my shadowcraft projections. I'm maximizing FW uptime, keeping SND rolling, Keeping up rupture, Keeping up Hemo. Is there something I'm just flat out forgetting to do? Are we supposed to keep CT up now?

[Deleted]

I don't think it's actually needed to keep hemo up anymore

[seraphbreak]

sub has a surprisingly high amount of waiting to pool energy for shadow dance.

[Deleted]

Decided to try sub with hastemastery gear straight from combat after getting my 551 mission dagger. Results were astounding. Even with bad gear i managed to increase my dps by 3-9k. Even on tectus where i would be getting rank 28 subtlety at the moment of this post. From bottom of the pack to top5. Not too bad imo.
Few pictures with Details!
http://aijaa.com/kruxZI
http://aijaa.com/af1Sh6
http://aijaa.com/NbsM6H