Poll: Your DPS on Kargath

[Heiligerx]

Tried a couple of attempts on Kargath normal/flex yesterday on my warlock. I left after a couple of attempts because group did not seem promising and I needed to eat.

But anyway, I'm 631 ilevel (Feuraos - Proudmoore) as destro and was pulling about 14.5-16k on wipe attempts. That's without getting to Shadowburn phase.

I was just curious what dps you guys are pulling for kills (normal or heroic) and your ilevel.

Thanks in advance.

[Baconeggcheese]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...lock&boss=1721

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...lock&boss=1721

[SpikeySquad]

Mine was 18.5k (I think...) in normal with ilvl 635 and staying in the arena. Are you aware that there isn't really a "shadowburn" phase now?

[Spelorzi]

20K on my first Heroic kill was 642 then, i can improve that much more, i expect hitting 24-26k next week (should be 652 by then).

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

[tacomaster]

20k on heroic http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...hjw3/rankinfo/

[Heiligerx]

Are you aware that there isn't really a "shadowburn" phase now?

So, you're not casting Shadowburn when the boss is under 20%?

[sats]

20k on heroic, mostly because I had to do the crowd and shadowburning is fun :P

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...mary&source=15

[iriecolorado]

So, you're not casting Shadowburn when the boss is under 20%?

Never cast Shadowburn single target. It's only a DPS increase if you can cleave it.

[Daten-shi]

UH DK ilvl 639 at Kargath HC, finished with 21k dps at end of the fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdjJKIeF9ZE

As you can see from the video, Unholy DKs are not a burst class but have high sustained damage. My char's name is Rivender.

Edit: Oops, just realized it's Warlock forum but there is our Warlock in the video too if you're curious how he did.

[DeadmanWalking]

So, you're not casting Shadowburn when the boss is under 20%?

Against single target Chas bolt hits harder for the resources/time ratio. If there is more than 1 target and you can havok shadowburn (for 2 hits) then it is worthwhile to shadowburn. Shadowburn doesn't always crit. If you want to get in one more hit before the boss dies and you don't have time for a chaos bolt then shadowburn. If mechanics don't allow you to stand still long enough to chaos bolt then shadowburn on the move.

[Heiligerx]

Never cast Shadowburn single target. It's only a DPS increase if you can cleave it.

Oh wow. That's depressing.

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If mechanics don't allow you to stand still long enough to chaos bolt then shadowburn on the move.

At least it has some use in single target mode.

[Kalistaa]

Never cast Shadowburn single target. It's only a DPS increase if you can cleave it.

The reasoning behind this is because with our current gear levels, crit is too low to make shadowburn viable. Since chaos bolt always crits, and scales with crit, it's better sustained damage right now. You also have to take into account that CB allows us to restore mana, which is essential since we are somewhat mana starved at the moment.

There are some caveats to this. If you can havoc 3 shadowburns, for 6 effective hits, that's obviously better, or if you can snipe one last shadowburn in when trinkets or Dark Soul is up but about to fade (whereas you couldn't fit in another CB cast) then yes, shadowburn.

[Heiligerx]

The reasoning behind this is because with our current gear levels, crit is too low to make shadowburn viable. Since chaos bolt always crits, and scales with crit, it's better sustained damage right now.

Do we know that crit threshold where shadowburn becomes viable?

[Zynx]

Chaos Bolt and SB scale equivalently with crit, so the idea that we don't have enough crit is just misinformation. The primary reason we don't use SB right now is that it OOMs you. If they buffed the damage or gave back mana return I'm sure we would use it again.

[Kalistaa]

Except that they don't scale equivalently with crit. Chaos bolt scales linearly, whereas Sburn is a chance to crit. I read somewhere that if you can get 1 out of 3 sburns to crit, it becomes viable again, so roughly 33%. I don't know how true that is, but here is another way to think about it.

Mana regen should improve as crit goes up. This is due to the fact that more crit rating = more ember gen. More ember gen = more chaos bolts. More chaos bolts = more mana regen. If you're not starved for mana, and you can guarantee your shadowburns are critting, then the dpct is better on shadowburn (when critting).

[Brusalk]

Chaos Bolt and SB scale equivalently with crit, so the idea that we don't have enough crit is just misinformation. The primary reason we don't use SB right now is that it OOMs you. If they buffed the damage or gave back mana return I'm sure we would use it again.

This is the truth. To further drive home that point, here's a spreadsheet incorporating the damage done by Chaos Bolt, vs Shadowburn + Incinerate including the damage granted by Incinerates ember generation, for all of the talent combos that affect that damage: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...=0&single=true

The question is whether the damage gained outweighs the loss in mana regen, which at the moment seems to be no. This does mean Shadowburn is better to cast in situations where mana isn't a concern however. (Which is essentially situations where you cap on mana in the future, or where the ember generation from Shadowburn means you generate more mana later.)

[Heiligerx]

This is the truth. To further drive home that point, here's a spreadsheet incorporating the damage done by Chaos Bolt, vs Shadowburn + Incinerate including the damage granted by Incinerates ember generation, for all of the talent combos that affect that damage: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...=0&single=true

The question is whether the damage gained outweighs the loss in mana regen, which at the moment seems to be no. This does mean Shadowburn is better to cast in situations where mana isn't a concern however. (Which is essentially situations where you cap on mana in the future, or where the ember generation from Shadowburn means you generate more mana later.)

So, mana loss aside and assume that mana is not an issue at all, is Shadowburn an actual loss in dps over Chaos Bolt?

[Brusalk]

Except that they don't scale equivalently with crit. Chaos bolt scales linearly, whereas Sburn is a chance to crit. I read somewhere that if you can get 1 out of 3 sburns to crit, it becomes viable again, so roughly 33%. I don't know how true that is, but here is another way to think about it.

Mana regen should improve as crit goes up. This is due to the fact that more crit rating = more ember gen. More ember gen = more chaos bolts. More chaos bolts = more mana regen. If you're not starved for mana, and you can guarantee your shadowburns are critting, then the dpct is better on shadowburn (when critting).

That's not quite correct.

Crit and Haste act as straight damage multipliers. IE 1% haste/crit grant 1% damage on average. There isn't anything different for Crit for Chaos Bolt. 1% crit is a 1% damage multipler on the Chaos Bolt.

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So, mana loss aside and assume that mana is not an issue at all, is Shadowburn an <i>actual</i> loss in dps over Chaos Bolt?

No. If you look at the bottom of the spreadsheet at the Damage + Ember Damage column, you can see that Shadowburn + Incinerate modified to include the increased damage from the ember generation is always greater than the Chaos Bolt version.

[Heiligerx]

No. If you look at the bottom of the spreadsheet at the Damage + Ember Damage column, you can see that Shadowburn + Incinerate modified to include the increased damage from the ember generation is always greater than the Chaos Bolt version.

Thanks for the clarification.

[zvvl]

That's not quite correct.

Crit and Haste act as straight damage multipliers. IE 1% haste/crit grant 1% damage on average. There isn't anything different for Crit for Chaos Bolt. 1% crit is a 1% damage multipler on the Chaos Bolt.

- - - Updated - - -



No. If you look at the bottom of the spreadsheet at the Damage + Ember Damage column, you can see that Shadowburn + Incinerate modified to include the increased damage from the ember generation is always greater than the Chaos Bolt version.

I assume this spreadsheet takes into account the GCD between Shadowburn and Incinerate casts? I don't see it on the spreadsheet but as I said I assume it's taken into account.