Subtlety: Is Using Hemorrhage Even Correct?

[SpacedOut]

This is something I've been pondering about for a wee while, and I'm struggling to see why using a move as weak as hemorrhage is correct in our rotations.

I've poured over my passives, because I remember that years ago hemorrhage would increase the damage of your other bleeds, but I can't find anything anywhere that says these days it applies anything more than a mediocre DoT (and sanguinary veins with glyph, but rupture applies that anyway).

Now I'll put my hand up to being not entirely in touch with the nuances of rogue mechanics these days, so if I've missed something obvious feel free to call me an idiot and show me where I've fouled up here, but just on my own I can't find anything.

Now for the maths:

I just ran myself a 10k iteration simcraft, and my DPETs for backstab and hemorrhage were 8447 and 6458 respectively. At a resource cost of 35 for backstab and 30 for hemorrhage, I calculate the damage per resource of backstab to be 241.34, and the damage per resource of hemorrhage to be 215.27, a fairly chunky difference. Now, I know that hemorrhage gives a cheaper combo point, but can that 5 energy on a combo point really make it worth using?

If someone could give me a heads up on this one I'd appreciate it.

Cheers.

[lawomous]

Just keep the Hemo debuff up and refresh it if it has less than 7 seconds, but backstab to build combo points.

[Snail23]

Just keep the Hemo debuff up and refresh it if it has less than 7 seconds, but backstab to build combo points.

While this used to be true, Hemorrhage and its debuff are no longer worth maintaining as it's less DPS and DPE than backstab. This is reflected in the latest Subtlety APL as well.

[SpacedOut]

While this used to be true, Hemorrhage and its debuff are no longer worth maintaining as it's less DPS and DPE than backstab. This is reflected in the latest Subtlety APL as well.

So it isn't correct to use hemorrhage, the lower DPR outweighs the cheaper CP?

[Snail23]

So it isn't correct to use hemorrhage, the lower DPR outweighs the cheaper CP?

Indeed. It's about a 100 dps loss in 630 gear, this gap only gets bigger with larger ilvl's. However, it's still worth using Hemorrhage to apply SV when target switching and vanish/dance are unavailable, otherwise open with Garrote.

[Coldkil]

Hemo is a very good safety net with the glyph to avoid the drop of SV due to RNG on Multistrike procs. It is a dps loss compared to backstab, but it's worse to have SV downtime due to not using Hemo to keep it up.

Not worth 100% uptime, but good for SV.

[SpacedOut]

Indeed. It's about a 100 dps loss in 630 gear, this gap only gets bigger with larger ilvl's. However, it's still worth using Hemorrhage to apply SV when target switching and vanish/dance are unavailable, otherwise open with Garrote.

Thanks for clearing this up, thought something was a bit off.

I hate to sound like an ass, but do you have a source for someone's maths on this one?

[Deleted]

As it is the start of the expansion hemo might not be an important asset in our rotation. After we get some proper gear with the right stats for sub mastery and multistrike keeping up the 20% bleed dmg from hemo will be important. As mastery will increase ruptures bleed and multistrike will only ampiflie that. This is what i think.

[Deleted]

I am still using Hemo (with Glyph) as a saftey net, rupture can disappear quite quickly due to multistrikes and you might not have the CP necessary to reapply. I'm just trying not to use it during SD and FW. But I do think it's damage should be increased to a point where it's a dps gain to keep the DoT rolling.