Anyone else surprised shadow didn't get a buff in this most recent tuning pass?

[Keosen]

Stop asking for MS buff, let's not be as spoiled as locks.
We are really strong on single target fight we don't need to be on top (or even middle) for burst aoe.

The only thing they must do it's buff VEnt and i don't really understand why the are not doing it.

[Relapses]

Stop asking for MS buff, let's not be as spoiled as locks.
We are really strong on single target fight we don't need to be on top (or even middle) for burst aoe.

The only thing they must do it's buff VEnt and i don't really understand why the are not doing it.

It isn't as simple as a mere damage tune. Imo, the talent is poorly designed and needs to be reworked completely. These types of fixes generally aren't completed in a tuning pass and will likely come around with the next content patch (6.1 or beyond).

AS, on the other hand, is one of our best scaling talents so they have to be careful as buffing it now would make it OP as fuck in later tiers. (Not saying they couldn't just nerf it if and when that happens, but I think they'd prefer a fix which doesn't require later tuning adjustments.)

[buffalowbie]

It isn't as simple as a mere damage tune. Imo, the talent is poorly designed and needs to be reworked completely. These types of fixes generally aren't completed in a tuning pass and will likely come around with the next content patch (6.1 or beyond).

AS, on the other hand, is one of our best scaling talents so they have to be careful as buffing it now would make it OP as fuck in later tiers. (Not saying they couldn't just nerf it if and when that happens, but I think they'd prefer a fix which doesn't require later tuning adjustments.)

Like that stopped them from buffing mages.

Shadow is falling further and further behind. Two weeks ago I was top of the charts in raid, now I'm bottom. Same group of people. I even have one of the higher ilvls of the group. My dps can be matched by a mage 14 ilvls lower than I am (and he's a crappy mage that everyone mocks, has been around 3 tiers and the only reason he hasn't been gkicked is because the GM relies on him IRL for rides to work).

If you follow the parsing charts on warcraftlogs, you'll see the change the recent tuning did. We're near the bottom now. We *were* good, but with the other buffs, we're back to being bottom again, and I fear we'll be dropped for mages and locks again.

[Relapses]

Like that stopped them from buffing mages.

Shadow is falling further and further behind. Two weeks ago I was top of the charts in raid, now I'm bottom. Same group of people. I even have one of the higher ilvls of the group. My dps can be matched by a mage 14 ilvls lower than I am (and he's a crappy mage that everyone mocks, has been around 3 tiers and the only reason he hasn't been gkicked is because the GM relies on him IRL for rides to work).

If you follow the parsing charts on warcraftlogs, you'll see the change the recent tuning did. We're near the bottom now. We *were* good, but with the other buffs, we're back to being bottom again, and I fear we'll be dropped for mages and locks again.

Can you explain this, please? It's Paragon's Mythic Butcher DPS chart, the only ST fight in Highmaul.

[Dawnrage]

Can you explain this, please? It's Paragon's Mythic Butcher DPS chart, the only ST fight in Highmaul.

Why is that important? Did you see Method's DPS meter for the same fight? They had two arcane mages at 36k. I don't even want to mention how gear is a big difference maker since you don't seem to attempt to even bring that up, instead linking some meter like it's relevant.

Shadow ST is strong, but I think you guys are really exaggerating how strong it is. Even in the screenshot you posted it wasn't a clear cut and day difference (and you guys are ignoring that other shadowpriest who didn't do so hot). It's comparable to a bunch of classes. However other classes and specs have far better cleave/AoE than we do and are not just good at one niche.

[Ponkster]

Why is that important? Did you see Method's DPS meter for the same fight? They had two arcane mages at 36k. I don't even want to mention how gear is a big difference maker since you don't seem to attempt to even bring that up, instead linking some meter like it's relevant.

Shadow ST is strong, but I think you guys are really exaggerating how strong it is. It's comparable to a bunch of classes. However other classes and specs have far better cleave/AoE than we do and are not just good at one niche.

this a million times over

[Thelxi]

I'm loving my spriest atm. To me the smoothest dps spec in the game atm. CoP is so cool.

[Relapses]

Why is that important? Did you see Method's DPS meter for the same fight? They had two arcane mages at 36k. I don't even want to mention how gear is a big difference maker since you don't seem to attempt to even bring that up, instead linking some meter like it's relevant.

Shadow ST is strong, but I think you guys are really exaggerating how strong it is. Even in the screenshot you posted it wasn't a clear cut and day difference (and you guys are ignoring that other shadowpriest who didn't do so hot). It's comparable to a bunch of classes. However other classes and specs have far better cleave/AoE than we do and are not just good at one niche.

Because it's about as relevant as something as anecdotal as "my DPS is going down and my guild's shitty Mage's DPS is better!" And uh, 29k "isn't too hot"? Are you fucking serious? There was a pretty even DPS split amongst everything, which, if anything, proves that the DPS tuning is tighter now than it has been in the past. I just what. I don't even words at this point.

[Austilias]

You don't need it.

Sincerely, someone who'd playing a Shaman and frustrated that both of our DPS specs hit like wet noodles whilst we get hit like trucks when it comes to questing/etc. Resto is the only worthwhile thing to play, which I suppose is somewhat fortunate as I levelled the character for that reason.

[wrynil]

Like that stopped them from buffing mages.

Shadow is falling further and further behind. Two weeks ago I was top of the charts in raid, now I'm bottom. Same group of people. I even have one of the higher ilvls of the group. My dps can be matched by a mage 14 ilvls lower than I am (and he's a crappy mage that everyone mocks, has been around 3 tiers and the only reason he hasn't been gkicked is because the GM relies on him IRL for rides to work).

If you follow the parsing charts on warcraftlogs, you'll see the change the recent tuning did. We're near the bottom now. We *were* good, but with the other buffs, we're back to being bottom again, and I fear we'll be dropped for mages and locks again.

Shadow priests are really damn strong..

[Dawnrage]

Because it's about as relevant as something as anecdotal as "my DPS is going down and my guild's shitty Mage's DPS is better!" And uh, 29k "isn't too hot"? Are you fucking serious? There was a pretty even DPS split amongst everything, which, if anything, proves that the DPS tuning is tighter now than it has been in the past. I just what. I don't even words at this point.

So the guy at #1 is clearly #1 because the enrage killed the other two melee DPS below him (which you can clearly see having higher DPS than the shadowpriest), and that's important, but the other shadowpriest doing 29k and is close to the bottom somehow is considered doing alright, and we can extrapolate that shadow is great from this screenshot? I don't even words indeed.

Keep thinking our OK single target means we can just be garbage at everything else though. I'm sure Blizzard loves that train of thought too since that means they can not touch us and watch us sink into the abyss once we start hitting AoE/cleave fights which are a-plenty in BRF.

[pokeadott]

Can you explain this, please? It's Paragon's Mythic Butcher DPS chart, the only ST fight in Highmaul.

Bolding because you inadvertently hit the nail on the head. The dps chart you linked proves ST dmg is relatively balanced atm (less than a 10% varriance in top 10 when gear is certainly not yet equal). Great. Grand. Wonderful.

Since many of the fights are NOT single target, I say that we are not balanced all that well. One of our shadow priests was already forced ot go Disc on mythic twins (our dps isnt terrible, but it doesn't compete with cleavers) and meters don't look all the different on our first few brackenspore pulls either. We're fine ST and OK on 1 at a time short/medium life adds. We're trash at cleave and AoE.

The problem is the classes that are great at AoE and cleaving are also fine single target. We are going to start feeling like liabilities on those style progression fights - I'm already seeing it in my guild.

[Deleted]

Wish there was a like button for 'pokeadott's post, I would be spamming it. He exactly sums up how I feel about this tier of mythic progression.

[Ponkster]

Wish there was a like button for 'pokeadott's post, I would be spamming it. He exactly sums up how I feel about this tier of mythic progression.

People are soo insanely narrow minded its untrue.

I've tried telling people that shadow is poor in a real raiding enviroment and has no niche like other specs but people defending it to the death just makes it easy for blizzard to just not bother to fix our other talents or make our cleave or AoE viable.

It's like trying to talk a religious person they can't be reasoned with.

[buffalowbie]

Bolding because you inadvertently hit the nail on the head. The dps chart you linked proves ST dmg is relatively balanced atm (less than a 10% varriance in top 10 when gear is certainly not yet equal). Great. Grand. Wonderful.

Since many of the fights are NOT single target, I say that we are not balanced all that well. One of our shadow priests was already forced ot go Disc on mythic twins (our dps isnt terrible, but it doesn't compete with cleavers) and meters don't look all the different on our first few brackenspore pulls either. We're fine ST and OK on 1 at a time short/medium life adds. We're trash at cleave and AoE.

The problem is the classes that are great at AoE and cleaving are also fine single target. We are going to start feeling like liabilities on those style progression fights - I'm already seeing it in my guild.

This. 100 times over.

Pure ST, yeah, we're ok, all other fights? Not so much.

I've already had to go disc (and that's with another disc in the group). Shadow is going to be just as much of a liability this tier as it was in MoP unless blizzard does something about it, which we know they won't. AS and VEnt are still not worth taking, and until they are, shadow will continue to suffer.

[zenkai]

Yeah I don't care if MS isn't the best but hell it shouldnt suck as bad as it does now just a minor tweek and I would be happy.

[Quill]

It's not rosy, but not as bad as MOP. We can be somewhat competitive in most situations. MOP was 10 times worse than this situation.

Great players can still do work with the class. I'm not sure I understand our purpose, or the reason a GM would specifically want a Shadowpriest besides just the player operating it being amazing. A GM wouldn't go 'meh shadow' like MOP anymore, but the excitement of getting a Shadow player on your apps page - I'm not sure it's there.

I think it's worth sticking with at this time, all 3 100 talents could become amazing at any moment. Blizz is tough to predict.

[Regen]

Side note: hot fix buffs posted (coffee guy on Twitter) combat AOE buffed but nothing for shadow. Bold strategy...? Playing rogue/priest this expac I can't be too angry, but I like my priest a tiny bit more so "perfection" (AoE buff to go with the st) wouldn't be unwelcomed.

[Dracodraco]

Side note: hot fix buffs posted (coffee guy on Twitter) combat AOE buffed but nothing for shadow. Bold strategy...? Playing rogue/priest this expac I can't be too angry, but I like my priest a tiny bit more so "perfection" (AoE buff to go with the st) wouldn't be unwelcomed.

They seem to be going the "specialisation" route with all the pure classes, though -
Want to AOE as a pure?

Go:
Combat
Surv/BM
Fire
Demo.

Want to singletarget?
Go:
Sub
MM
Arcane
Affliction


Want to burst?
Go:
Rogue - don't know enough about them to say.
MM
Frost
Destruction


They aren't "perfecting" rogues by giving combat AOE, they are buffing their AOE spec to be even stronger than it is, making it more "nichey", because they buffed their "only does singletarget" spec aswell.

[buffalowbie]

I'm starting to think Shadow won't get any attention unless we start some agitation for it. It worked back in MoP, it will work again here.

Mages were "fine" (blizzard said so in their AMA) and they whined and bitched till they got buffs, it's time we did so too. It's only going to get worse once we can access tier gear.

They seem to be going the "specialisation" route with all the pure classes, though -

Okay, but why is pally (and monk) so strong then? We got the royal shaft again.