Mage in raid team underperforming (logs included)

[Deleted]

So this mage has been underperforming a bit and can't consistently put out the dps needed. I'm not well versed with mages come WoD so can't really help him out alot. Posting logs and hope someone can take a quick looksie ( our Butcher H kill would probably be a good place to start).

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dqVKCQ7PcfBhFWxD#

[Vibah]

At his gear level he should use PC+IN.

[Kikazz]

Your mage and warlock are severely underperforming, but remember it is new to the tier, give them some time, dont be so harsh.

also they seem to be lacking stat appropriate gear. maybe if they farmed some gear with more ideal stats they could do more damage.

[Deleted]

Your mage and warlock are severely underperforming, but remember it is new to the tier, give them some time, dont be so harsh.

also they seem to be lacking stat appropriate gear. maybe if they farmed some gear with more ideal stats they could do more damage.

Yep i know both of them are, and gear won't help skill/knowledge issues it will only make it seem "less bad" when it's in fact just as bad.

[testsubjectzz]

I would start by asking him about his 100 talents because I see none?

That was for warlock by the way.

[Deleted]

He has demonic servitude selected atleast on armory for me.

[Barnabas]

Tell the mage to use ice nova on cd. It helps.

[Rinoa]

I won't go very in-depth, but on the surface there are some very obvious problems.

1: He only used Mirror Images 3 times in a 9:35 fight. They have a 2 minute cooldowns, and are BY FAR our highest DPET.
2: He only used Icy Veins 3 times. 3 minute cooldown here, so he missed out.
3: He didn't use a second potion, only one at the start of the fight. (He used Nitro Boosts though, which I think trigger the pot cooldown. Bad choice IMO)
4: He cast 85 Ice Lances, but only had 74 hits of Frost Bomb. Suggests bad use.
5: 13 Water Jets (25 second cooldown) in a 575 second fight...
6: 62 Fingers of Frost buffs, but 85 Ice Lances cast. Suggests poor movement management with Icy Floes, or he got targeted by the red cloud thingy a LOT.
7: He missed at least one full use of his Ragewing trinket.

Also, he has cheap gems and enchants on everything apart from his weapon, which is quite ironic as Shattered Hand (cheap) enchant is very likely better than his Frostwolf one at his gear level.

[Ravenesss]

Its a new expac lots of people are still adjusting be patient.

[Rinoa]

Its a new expac lots of people are still adjusting be patient.

There is nothing wrong with helping people realise what they are doing wrong, perhaps the person asking is being very patient, and just wants to help.

[zoomgpally]

I won't go very in-depth, but on the surface there are some very obvious problems.

1: He only used Mirror Images 3 times in a 9:35 fight. They have a 2 minute cooldowns, and are BY FAR our highest DPET.
2: He only used Icy Veins 3 times. 3 minute cooldown here, so he missed out.
3: He didn't use a second potion, only one at the start of the fight. (He used Nitro Boosts though, which I think trigger the pot cooldown. Bad choice IMO)
4: He cast 85 Ice Lances, but only had 74 hits of Frost Bomb. Suggests bad use.
5: 13 Water Jets (25 second cooldown) in a 575 second fight...
6: 62 Fingers of Frost buffs, but 85 Ice Lances cast. Suggests poor movement management with Icy Floes, or he got targeted by the red cloud thingy a LOT.
7: He missed at least one full use of his Ragewing trinket.

Also, he has cheap gems and enchants on everything apart from his weapon, which is quite ironic as Shattered Hand (cheap) enchant is very likely better than his Frostwolf one at his gear level.

Can't see anything not mentioned here from a quick look at logs. I can however confirm the nitro boosts DO trigger the pot cooldown.

[Ravenesss]

There is nothing wrong with helping people realise what they are doing wrong, perhaps the person asking is being very patient, and just wants to help.

Never said there was a problem with that.

[Willfox]

At his gear level he should use PC+IN.

Considering frost bomb and Ice Nova are very close, and multiple fights have cleave/aoe where bomb pulls noticably ahead, this is really not good advice as a blanket statement.

They should however be using PC.

[Nawdle]

Tell the mage to use ice nova on cd. It helps.

Not great advice seeing as it works on a charge system. You can afford to sit on one for a while and wait for trinket proc/pot/mechanics/PC etc, as long as you don't sit there with 2 pooled wasting time. Even then it might be worth sitting on 2 for a very short time if you're setting up for a huge bursty moment of glory.

2nd edit: your mage may want to figure out a UI that very obviously displays when his cooldowns are ready. His DPs is about half what it should be. Frost is currently all about a few big abilities on CD and then hoping for procs. If he's missing those abilities, he will never perform well.

[Kshar]

Your windwalker is also underperforming.

[Mountain Called Monkey]

Looking at the Butcher fight it's pretty obvious what specifically is wrong with his play style.

1.) His talents are flat out wrong for Butcher. Generally, Ice Nova will out preform Fbomb in pure single target fights such as Butcher. This has been confirmed by sims and several high end Mages. Granted the difference is small but Ice Nova is generally easier to use than Fbomb and since the mage is making a few glaring mechanical errors this might help take some pressure off. Also PC is better than TV for single target until Teir sets. He should also stick with Ice Floes even with Butcher. He could throw in an extra frostbolt during the knockback

2.) He missed a lot of Water Jet casts for whatever reason. This pairing up with the fact that he is using Fbomb and TV will really cripple his sustained burst.

3.) His trinkets are pretty terrible. Both are sub par for Frost and can easily be replaced. Tell him to buy http://www.wowhead.com/item=119932&bonus=0 which will replace the Ragewing trinket. The other can be replaced by any trinket from Highmaul

These were the most obvious and general problems with his setup. Stuff that can be easily fixed with a few hours of work and research on his part. Hopefully this helps and if anyone else wants to add to what I listed feel free to do so.

[Deleted]

@Mountain, the dps difference between IN and FB is so negligible it doesn't really matter. It's good people are using Frost Bomb, as it scales better and later on it will be the go to talent to pick.

[siaro]

Unless this is a US guild, and a mage on EU is called the same i'm going to say that his dps is extremly bad for his gear. He has got more & better gear than i do, and rarely do under 20k(and that's "bad").

If mages haven't learned they're specc/class til now, they never will, so stop all the "give him a break it's new blablabla".
This stuff should be sorted BEFORE one get invites to raid, not put to question by other raid members.

Have him sit till he's sorted his shit out, no use in doing charity work as a guild.

[Firehorse]

Your mage and warlock are severely underperforming, but remember it is new to the tier, give them some time, dont be so harsh.

also they seem to be lacking stat appropriate gear. maybe if they farmed some gear with more ideal stats they could do more damage.

Man I wish someone had told my guildies that.

I cam back after a 2 year break but I knew the GM from back in the day when we were pushing ICC heroic so he let me join right into the raid. Posted ONE attempt at 13.7k dps on Tectus normal in a 631 gear and they immediately kicked me out of the raid team and told me to come back when I can pull a consistent 19k dps in challenge mode.

[Mountain Called Monkey]

@Mountain, the dps difference between IN and FB is so negligible it doesn't really matter. It's good people are using Frost Bomb, as it scales better and later on it will be the go to talent to pick.

If they execute it properly which the mage we are discussing did not. I agree that people should start using it but and in the long run it would be better for him to practice it but as of right now it won't increase his damage output.