EVERYONE is rushing now

[De Lupe]

I see a funny attitude, I comment on it - and yours is beyond amusing.
You claim not to be a sore loser, and yet you see it fit to claim that using a certain, effective type of deck takes no skill, that winning with it is not the result of being a better player but of some undetermined skilllessness(sic) factor. In your eyes building an effective deck, accustoming to and countering the meta somehow is not a part of skillset of playing a CCG. The only worthy way to win is to play decks you personally see as approved, otherwise the player is a skill-less baddie. Apparently there is no strategy that extends beyond the match itself for you - and yet you've got the audacity to claim others negate a part of strategy involved in playing an online CCG. This is both ridiculous and very ironic.

My phone is almost dead and isn't the best for typing things out, so I'll be back later to talk more.

Edit: Or, not. You win. You want to call me a sore loser? Go for it. I'm tired, just got off of work, and I didn't come in here to start an argument. I apologize if my comments came off as arrogant or offensive to you, but I just straight up don't care enough about the discussion to keep it going. I think rush decks are cheap and strategy-less, you don't. Nothing you say will change my mind, and vice versa. So I'll be the bigger person and admit defeat and walk away.

Have a very nice day. =-)

[Cthulhu 2020]

This sounds exactly like something a sore loser would say.

"I didn't lose because I was a worse player! I lost because this retarded noob was playing cheap!"

Do you have any idea how pathetic this comes across?

Playing rush decks, there is zero thinking, zero strategy beyond "Get tons of minions out, swing for face." your opponent is so busy trying to get rid of your board that they're constantly in catch up mode. With other decks there's a lot of thinking ahead, how can my opponent possibly counter me if I play this? How about if I play this other thing?

Playing every minion you get and swinging for face is why bots had a 70% win rate with zoo lock. Bots can't simulate the complexity of other strategy decks. But having 70% win rate with summon minions, swing for face and these few threatening mobs.

[Deleted]

So i gotta abbandon the kinda deck i love to play, because people are just playing the most unskillfull kinda deck?
Worst then zoo locks?

Uhm, yes. That's generally how TCGs are played. It's called "the Meta". It's constantly changing and if really so many people play rushdecks, the ones who want to legend will come up with counterdecks pretty quickly.

[Charge me Doctor]

Playing rush decks, there is zero thinking, zero strategy beyond "Get tons of minions out, swing for face." your opponent is so busy trying to get rid of your board that they're constantly in catch up mode. With other decks there's a lot of thinking ahead, how can my opponent possibly counter me if I play this? How about if I play this other thing?

Playing every minion you get and swinging for face is why bots had a 70% win rate with zoo lock. Bots can't simulate the complexity of other strategy decks. But having 70% win rate with summon minions, swing for face and these few threatening mobs.

Get some taunts, seriously. Or explosive sheep. This game is 50% RNG and 50% thinking, if someone puts 100% on RNG it's their choice, if you can't beat RNG with your strategy, well, you can't win all the time. Adapt to meta, there is nothing you can do here but turn this 70% loss rate into 70% win rate by simply picking counter deck

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Uhm, yes. That's generally how TCGs are played. It's called "the Meta". It's constantly changing and if really so many people play rushdecks, the ones who want to legend will come up with counterdecks pretty quickly.

I want to add that you have to do so if you enjoy winning, not playing the game. TCGs for me was always about gimmicky shit, not "m gonna rek u noob"

[Ryme]

Tempo is king currently, which can often rub a lot of value players up the wrong way. It's a different style of playing, but notable things that occur during a tempo meta is spells become too slow and minion control leads.

This can look like you're being rushed down by a zoo, but you're not, you're just not contesting the minions fast enough.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Get some taunts, seriously. Or explosive sheep. This game is 50% RNG and 50% thinking, if someone puts 100% on RNG it's their choice, if you can't beat RNG with your strategy, well, you can't win all the time. Adapt to meta, there is nothing you can do here but turn this 70% loss rate into 70% win rate by simply picking counter deck

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I want to add that you have to do so if you enjoy winning, not playing the game. TCGs for me was always about gimmicky shit, not "m gonna rek u noob"

I played some zoo for easy wins. It really was just a whole ton of draw card, play card. There was almost no though process to it, just basic game mechanics. No strategy, only swing for face and dangerous minions with high attack and low health.

GvG has fixed some issues with low budget taunts, but unless you build an entirely turtle deck which is rush's counter and not really anybody else's counter. Instead of throwing in lots more counters to zoo/rush style decks they made it even easier to build rush decks for all classes.

People claiming that rush decks' strategy is in the deck building more so than playing, but it doesn't take that much skill to build a deck from hearthpwn and swing for face.

Why people are upset is there are a lot of strategic cards and decks that are pretty much worthless because the whole meta is either rush the other guy down before he rushes you, or turtle and board clears.

Rush decks also aren't nearly as subject to RnG as any other deck is because it's filled to the brim with tons of low to medium cost minions, so it's pretty hard to top deck something bad. You have to get some pretty bad RnG to top deck every single one of your mid cost minions.

[Deleted]

FACE FACE FAEC SwiftRage
Best meta so far.

[Mithfin]

Yea. Love it. 2 losses in rank 18 -> rank 4 run with Tree of Life full ramp+taunt druid with Molten Giants. Hunters with 1-2 cards in hand conceding after 20+ heal... best shit ever.

[Deleted]

time to leave ranked for a while again. Havent really seen anything else than annoying rush decks for like 50 games. Its not that they are mega op but its boring to play agaisnt the same deck over and over

[Martyn 470]

The thing that annoys me more than rush decks is that there are some decks which you might as well conceed if you drop below a certain amount of HP.

Mages, double fireball frostbolt does 15 damage in one turn.
Mages, Fireball Frostbolt Frostbolt ice lance ice lance, 20 damage in one turn.
Druids, 14 damage in one turn with FON & Savage roar, at least 17 damage if they have one minion on the field.

I countered a mage there, but through Flamestrike and spare parts he managed to hit me TWICE, once with a 5 attack and once with a 3 attack and I was dead the next turn to mage bullshittery.

Priests are the only real class that can counter burst damage without sacrificing 3-4 cards in their deck to do so.

[Axelond]

Rank 2/3 is 80% control decks and 20% deathrattle zoo

[Raiju]

Tempo is king currently, which can often rub a lot of value players up the wrong way. It's a different style of playing, but notable things that occur during a tempo meta is spells become too slow and minion control leads.

This can look like you're being rushed down by a zoo, but you're not, you're just not contesting the minions fast enough.

The issue is the mech tempo (if that's the preferred term in this case) is nearly as fast as zoo. It's all well and good to say well put more counters in but f.ex. my shaman deck right now has:

2 crackle
1 lightning bolt
2 earth shock
2 thunderstorm
2 feral spirit
2 sludge belcher
2 arcane nullifier
0-2 sheep intermittently (being playing with them, hasn't helped at all without also investing in a sunfury protector or DoA)

Now I guess the underlying issue isn't that it's impossible to win games - the deck can happily beat control warriors and often handlocks. It usually wins against hunter and priest, ofcourse RNG permitting in all cases in hearthstone. The issue is losing to the SAME MECH RUSH played by various classes every single time, and not sure how much more of the deck needs to be built just to counter this specific rush which seems to die off at higher rank anyway?

[Deleted]

Just because you won, doesn't make you the more skilled player.

Rush builds are the exact opposite of skill. It is literally swarm the board and hit the face. Nothing skilled about overwhelming your opponent before they can AoE you down.

I bet what you are seeing as "swarming the board" is most of the time your opponent building up better tempo than yourself. I mean, sure, there are zoo type players who will literally vomit up their hands without any consideration of their opponent's hands. and the older zoolock decks had cards which encouraged this in Soulfire and Doomguard, but most of the "rush" decks I face take into account my potential board wipes and when they do empty their hands it's a calculated risk in favor for a huge tempo swing or push for lethal.
And most of these zoo type decks rely on steam and card draw, once that is exhausted they are dead in the water. You dont have to rely on just board clears to last until this; solid early game minions that have to be traded with, cards like Unstable Ghoul and Explosive Sheep, on top of your own tempo plays can easily make you last until the "rush" deck is putting out a Leper Gnome to your Rag.
Calculating the maximum damage potential of your hand spread over a few turns is, in my opinion, just as "skillful" as calculating the maximum damage mitigation. I mean, it's not as if it's incredibly hard to read what a control warrior's favoured turn would be given perfect draw(even though they invariably take the full 90 seconds to play it).
And, yes, if someone's "original but fun" decks are consistently losing so much that they come to forums to complain about getting "zerged" down the fault is on them. While HS may not be the most complex of games it is still reliant on having two player's face each other and if one of them refuses to adapt his deck to what his opponent may have then he is crippling himself before the game has even started.
Most of us have our "original but fun" decks that we mess around with, but we realise that we are sacrificing a competitive edge when playing them.

[Deleted]

I bet what you are seeing as "swarming the board" is most of the time your opponent building up better tempo than yourself. I mean, sure, there are zoo type players who will literally vomit up their hands without any consideration of their opponent's hands. and the older zoolock decks had cards which encouraged this in Soulfire and Doomguard, but most of the "rush" decks I face take into account my potential board wipes and when they do empty their hands it's a calculated risk in favor for a huge tempo swing or push for lethal.
And most of these zoo type decks rely on steam and card draw, once that is exhausted they are dead in the water. You dont have to rely on just board clears to last until this; solid early game minions that have to be traded with, cards like Unstable Ghoul and Explosive Sheep, on top of your own tempo plays can easily make you last until the "rush" deck is putting out a Leper Gnome to your Rag.
Calculating the maximum damage potential of your hand spread over a few turns is, in my opinion, just as "skillful" as calculating the maximum damage mitigation. I mean, it's not as if it's incredibly hard to read what a control warrior's favoured turn would be given perfect draw(even though they invariably take the full 90 seconds to play it).
And, yes, if someone's "original but fun" decks are consistently losing so much that they come to forums to complain about getting "zerged" down the fault is on them. While HS may not be the most complex of games it is still reliant on having two player's face each other and if one of them refuses to adapt his deck to what his opponent may have then he is crippling himself before the game has even started.
Most of us have our "original but fun" decks that we mess around with, but we realise that we are sacrificing a competitive edge when playing them.

Stop being reasonable. How dare you suggest that consistently losing to rush decks may be the losers' fault. It hurts their egos if you suggest they lost to better players, not to OMG OP SO NOOB decks.

[shammypie]

Stop being reasonable. How dare you suggest that consistently losing to rush decks may be the losers' fault. It hurts their egos if you suggest they lost to better players, not to OMG OP SO NOOB decks.

why are you being so toxic?

Anyway I think we all have forgotten the main point of this thread was the fact that mech cards have made every class able to rush and increased the number of rush decks. This has lead to players building either rush, control, or tempo (which i don't quite understand as it looks similar to midrange to me). From personal experience i know these decks do take a degree of skill getting used to and learning how to bait the right combos and when to push/hold back. However the learning curve is low while the potential is extremely high. Rush is like the death knight of hearthstone where even unskilled players can bash their head against the keyboard and have a decent win/lose ratio.

Everyone hates to lose, but part of the reason so many people stop playing the game 1 month after every new card release is the predominance of meta decks. Rush specifically is soul crushing as the games don't even last very long. Some of my most enjoyable moments was long drawn out games with non meta decks with one of my brand new creations.

[Deleted]

My only problem with the current meta is that Undertaker hunters are still around (although Antique Healbot provides an answer that we did not have before) and the BMing Antonidas/spare parts mages that wait until the rope is about to burn to fireball your face or even pyroblast your face.

[Gratlim]

And here I am laughing with my improved handlock deck watch as i drop giants and heals all over the board.

This. Playing handlock as well and tanking rushers ftw. I got more and bigger giants (anima), anoy o tron, Belcher, healing bot, dark bomb, 4 clear board etc. Only loose to mage and priest.

[h4rr0d]

So i gotta abbandon the kinda deck i love to play, because people are just playing the most unskillfull kinda deck?
Worst then zoo locks?

Did you actually create your decklist? Because that's the only part of Hearthstone that actually takes any semblance of skill (ever saw a bot for mtg online?). And by the sounds of it, many players are better at that than you...

On a more serious note, the resurgence (and success) of aggro decks at the release of a new expansion isn't anything new. It happens in other card games too. Building efficient aggro deck is much easier and quicker process than tuning a control deck. Just wait couple of weeks before people figure out the meta and everything should be back to normal. Keep in mind, that certain percentage of aggro decks is actually healthy in the meta, because fast decks help to keep the greediest decks honest.

[BicycleMafioso]

Meh, if anything, GvG has reduced the amount of go-face players, which I appreciate. Not because of difficulty in beating them (apart from Mages, I don't really struggle against go-face), but because some take it to such an extreme they are not even pinging off the 4/1 yeti I have ._.

[Deleted]

Gotta aggree tbh i think hs has been ruined by rush decks.