MM or Surv

[whirlingcloud]

There are some neat tricks with SV. They are seeeecrets though.

[Romaromama]

Before I start a new thread, I might aswell grab on to this thread.

If you guys play hunter in arena pvp, do you think MM is always the best specc or can survival compete? I know kill shot is a huge deal and MM has good burst potential but what about the sustain and the somewhat less vulnerability to LoS as survival? I'm just curious because I switched to survival in 2v2 and might aswell play it in 3s so I bought season gear towards my survival specc; needless to say I am somewhat afraid that I might have made a bad call here.

Also another question: there is a knockback deminishing return lasting 10 secs, explosive trap has a CD of 12 seconds. Still I notice enemys are not affected by my explosive trap when I use it a second time although they are not stunned or rooted, do I miss something.

Thanks for any answers!

The correct to the first part is neither. BM is the clear winner most of the time. tranq shot is OP.

[Deleted]

tranq shot is OP.

Is this referred to BM? Because every spec has tranq shot.

I hate BM :x
...
atleast in BGs

[Deleted]

I'm above 670 now and going SV am beating every MM hunter in the guild atm. It's alot about min/maxing tho.

pretty terrible hunters unless you are refering to very specific situations or severely undergeared. No offence intended :P

[Romaromama]

Is this referred to BM? Because every spec has tranq shot.

I hate BM :x
...
atleast in BGs

Think about how dps works for each spec... Bm can spam tranq with negligible dmg decrease.
Dispelling a hot or shield is essentially as of the hunter did enough dmg to break the shield or bypass the rolling hots.

Play whatever you like. Just don't make choices without being more informed
bgs much less importance on coordination and lower skill cap unless playing rated.

[Deleted]

pretty terrible hunters unless you are refering to very specific situations or severely undergeared. No offence intended :P

No offense but the latest sim craft results put survival barely 1k behind MM on single target at 670 ilevel, so.... I'm getting tired of this MM master spec nagging

[zurm]

No offense but the latest sim craft results put survival barely 1k behind MM on single target at 670 ilevel, so.... I'm getting tired of this MM master spec nagging

I'm trying to understand why people are fighting so hard for a spec that has no cd and no execute. It is the most monotonous and boring dps spec I have ever played. I'm sure in SOO it could have been fun... But now? A least MM requires planning your shots and strategic movement to maximize dps. Disclaimer: from a pve perspective, but fun factor still applies to pvp IMO.

[Halyon]

If you play for progress, you're default locked into Lone Wolf MM. It's broken. I re-rolled class because I despise it, but that's personal griping...

If you play for fun, then pick whatever you want really... Just know that you will probably be low on the damage meter.

[Deleted]

No offense but the latest sim craft results put survival barely 1k behind MM on single target at 670 ilevel, so.... I'm getting tired of this MM master spec nagging

can we see that particular sim? because on the simc site survival is more than 2.5k dps behind, I guess you are referring to another one i've not seen.

No one is saying SV is not "competitive", but in a head to head MM vs SV with 2 hunters equally geared and equally skilled, MM will pull higher dps 95% of the time in highmaul.

[Nythiz]

Before I start a new thread, I might aswell grab on to this thread.

If you guys play hunter in arena pvp, do you think MM is always the best specc or can survival compete? I know kill shot is a huge deal and MM has good burst potential but what about the sustain and the somewhat less vulnerability to LoS as survival? I'm just curious because I switched to survival in 2v2 and might aswell play it in 3s so I bought season gear towards my survival specc; needless to say I am somewhat afraid that I might have made a bad call here.

Also another question: there is a knockback deminishing return lasting 10 secs, explosive trap has a CD of 12 seconds. Still I notice enemys are not affected by my explosive trap when I use it a second time although they are not stunned or rooted, do I miss something.

Thanks for any answers!

I'm not really a diehard PvP'er but I do know Abdou plays SV sometimes on his stream.

The biggest "pre" of SV is that you have a 12 second trap cooldown and, like you mentioned, the relative higher proportion of instant shots make you less susceptible to LoS weaving.

I think the question is: What is your hunter in the team for?

If you play 2s with a healer, you're suppose to do the dps and get the kills. In this case MM is probably the stronger spec (w/o Lone Wolf mind you, you need the pet for defense) due to having 35% kill shots
If you play 2s with a high dps class, you could go SV and benefit from that 12 second trap cooldown; or go MM and try to zerg one down (<- probably the most favored concept of the 2)

In 3s the story is yet again different. Hunters are generally not purely chosen for their damage output since it simply doesn't hold up to many other strong pvp classes out there that can easily do 50% more damage and then some.
So you can either go MM (+ possibly LW in 3s) to try to do as much as you can, but I have seen some setups that take survival hunters and make optimal use of the 12 second trap cooldowns; where hunters serve as controllers and shot callers.

- - - Updated - - -

If you play for progress, you're default locked into Lone Wolf MM. It's broken. I re-rolled class because I despise it, but that's personal griping...

If you play for fun, then pick whatever you want really... Just know that you will probably be low on the damage meter.

Bit oversimplified IMO.

It isn't always as black and white as this makes it seem. The way you make it seem would be mythic progression vs LFR/Normal Pug fun.
There is plenty of room in e.g. heroic progression (or even normal progression) to play SV or BM without holding back your guild all that much.

Taking warcraftlogs data for example for heroic 50% percentile (average joes), there are plenty of fights (e.g. Butcher / Imperator) where survival is only 1k behind (that's 3-5% dps).
Is LW MM better? Hell yes, enough to be noticeable to a degree that blizz should fix. But if you're good at SV and your guild is like semi-hardcore you should easily be able to get along.

I think people focus a bit too much on logs and the sim data and the "average hunter" takes these things as THE LAW. That "if you aren't MM LW you automatically suck"-attitude. It gets old really fast.

[Deleted]

can we see that particular sim? because on the simc site survival is more than 2.5k dps behind, I guess you are referring to another one i've not seen.

No one is saying SV is not "competitive", but in a head to head MM vs SV with 2 hunters equally geared and equally skilled, MM will pull higher dps 95% of the time in highmaul.

I googled SIMC, went to the link that said T17_M or something, it had MM at 40k ish and SV at 38.9kish or somewhat.... Not a big enough difference to matter imo :P

And this is why I dislike dmg meters, what difference does 2,5k make when we are talking of DPS in the ranges of 40K? And its just going to become even more insignificant as we go along... But yeah, I wish they'd add killshot back to SV, why they removed that ..... I just dont know, makes no sense to remove either that or rapid fire...

That said, untill MM starts doing 20-30% more dmg than SV, I'm not playing it... I dislike aimed shot THAT much, I dont want a cast time of over 2 seconds while playing an archer class, it feels wierd... atleast give MM back the chance to proc an instant casted one or something.

[jpthepope]

what people dont get though is the fact that sv is sustained while mm has burst, and burst a lot of times is more useful than a sustained class. Also anytime you can get extra CA phases and ks phases boost mm while not doing so much for sv. With that being said sv is my favorite spec and i wouldnt switch it unless its 25% or more lower than mm. Lastly no guild right now is 685 so please stop trying to compared sims for a number that no guild has even obtained at this moment

[yakuz]

what sims u talking about? according to this http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T17M.html SV sack ballz.

[willtron]

MM is stronger, SV is more fun IMO therefore, I play SV

[Fumu]

MM without question.

Easy as hell rotation, faceroll to top the damage meters. It's sad that the other two specs are middling to bad right now, but that's how it is. Personally I play BM and enjoy my pretty new purple spirit wolf outside of raiding, then switch to MM inside of it. The difference in DPS is just too great between BM and MM, and Surv is even greater.

[Boricha]

If you care about your performance then you play MM. Otherwise just do whatever, but don't be surprised if you get kicked from groups that are wiping.

As far as the arena question - BM seems to be the most effective whereas MM is better in RBGs. Only time I imagine Survival being used is in that HLS comp but I don't think that's going anywhere right now.

[Deleted]

what sims u talking about? according to this http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T17M.html SV sack ballz.

it is less than 10% behind, thus it doesnt suck balls, as you so nicely put it.

Unless you're raiding in a cutting edge progression guild that might risk wipes at 1-5% boss HP, that type of dps difference is neglible at best.
now you dont have to agree with me, but saying a spec isnt viable requires that it is atleast 20-30% behind the other specs of the class, imo.

[Cempa]

BM is the only spec that can spam Tranq without losing DPS so you see it has its place...MM is also really strong...SV is a control machine with sustained pressure and some cleave though not much....


I play SV and had success with a healer who likes to be offensive...The 12 sec traps are amazing...Freeze--->Stun-Binding-+Knock back--->Freeze...You wear them down slowly as they blow CD's...Just keep landing a trap every 12sec and your partner also using CC and the pressure will eventually land you a kill!

[Deleted]

I'm trying to understand why people are fighting so hard for a spec that has no cd and no execute. It is the most monotonous and boring dps spec I have ever played. I'm sure in SOO it could have been fun... But now? A least MM requires planning your shots and strategic movement to maximize dps. Disclaimer: from a pve perspective, but fun factor still applies to pvp IMO.

I like fast paced action and instant casts.... There is only one thing in the MM spec that ruins it for, sadly that one thing is one of the main aspects of said spec.
I didnt pick the mobile class in order to have 2 sec cast times and be imobile to do top dps, oh wait no, you can move, for 3 seconds(?), still... Been survival for ages, never liked the other specs, and finally with lone wolf Im rid of that derpy pet.

if I wanted to play a class with cast times, I'd play a mage or warlock. (No im not a massive fan of cobra/steady either, but I can understand the need to not have all instant casts)

[Cempa]

I've had some relly fun 2v2 as SV+Healer against MM/BM+Healer and it wasn't even fair as my 12 sec trap on the other healer just overpowered them....