Shadow Reflection Perfection

[Redknot]

What we know about SR:
http://ravenholdt.net/index.php/foru...c.php?f=6&t=45

According to our Sim thread:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post30559996

I don't have the time to sift through all the pages anymore, so I'll ask in a thread

Rupture being so strong right now, our SR's Rupture is also pretty strong. I'm wondering if it's worth clipping a Rupture during the 8 Second Mimic of SR to guarantee our Reflection gets a Rupture up every SR CD we use (other than our opener).
I'm in finals week or else I could play around with it myself. I haven't seen any guides or posts regarding this.

Thanks.

[Deleted]

Because of that : "Does not have its own Sanguinary Veins mechanism, nor does it benefit from owner Sanguinary Veins debuff" + the fact that SR's rupture doesnt tick anymore after our clone is gone, I don't think rupture is worth an evisceration (you will still see the rupture of our clone after it disappears but it stops doing damage, so all you get from it is 1/3 of a regular rupture)

edit : I read your second link after posting, dont know if something changed since the date of this discussion but my SR's rupture does stop ticking, I only get like 4 ticks out of it (not counting multistrike procs)

[Xaryen]

Actually after looking at logs and some ingame testing I'm pretty sure Rupture keeps doing damage after the clone disappears.
example: /reports/gtnHcLYMvrBXkKF1#fight=18&type=damage-done&source=33.2

[Deleted]

Maybe a bug with skada then ? when I look at it I never get more than 4-5 ticks and it doesnt add either on my own rupture ticks count

edit : Looking at my own logs it indeed does seem to keep ticking... damn you Skada !
My first reply is incorrect then, sorry about that

[Redknot]

It indeed does keep ticking, which is why I would love to know if it's a DPS gain to clip right before the end of every Mimic, or just sometime during the Mimic.

@Kinzo: It's okay man.

[Maelstrom51]

Ok, Shadow Reflection is officially the stupidest talent ever.

I have been testing it with Rupture for the last half hour or so, and I have seen very little consistency.

In some uses, the reflection rupture ticks only while the reflection is there.
In others, it stops ticking 6 seconds early.
Once, it didn't stop ticking for the full duration.

In all cases, the debuff stayed for the full duration.

Edit: Looks like I overreacted. It appears that it always ticks for the full duration, but the damage numbers stop showing randomly and recount doesn't display the damage at all, despite adding it to my total damage.

[Xaryen]

Yeah the damage meters appear to be confused about its behavior as much as everyone else, but It looks like it should stay (visible or not) for the whole duration.
Also simcraft maybe models it that way because clipping rupture during SR with <24sec remaining gives me ~50dps increase, in real scenarios I would expect it to be a bit more because most of the time Rupture seems to have 2x-4x the dpe of an Evis.
To answer OPs question I would say that using it at some point during SR is very likely going to be a marginal dps increase regardless of clipping, with not clipping being preferable of course.

[carlo0188]

Can someone tell me why you wouldn't pop your vendetta/SR macro before you rupture at 5cp (mostly on the pull, but also otherwise)? Seems like the SR benefits from you popping rupture during the mimic. I must be missing something. This would delay rupture by 1 global on the pull but give your SR a full rupture. I'm probably wrong but just wondering why.

[Deleted]

I'm having a really tough time getting much out of my SR on pull when i use the first 5 CP's on Rupture. I dont seem to have enough energy even with double vanish to pull of more then 1 Envenom and a mutilate plus a lucky blindside proc.

Is there something i am missing?

[kilj]

Your playing assassination?

[Maelstrom51]

I'm having a really tough time getting much out of my SR on pull when i use the first 5 CP's on Rupture. I dont seem to have enough energy even with double vanish to pull of more then 1 Envenom and a mutilate plus a lucky blindside proc.

Is there something i am missing?

Are you running with Anticipation or Marked for Death? If the former, you shouldn't be building to 5 CP before using Rupture anyway.

[Deleted]

Are you running with Anticipation or Marked for Death? If the former, you shouldn't be building to 5 CP before using Rupture anyway.

I'm running assassination with Anticipation atm.

[shaithis]

Are you running with Anticipation or Marked for Death? If the former, you shouldn't be building to 5 CP before using Rupture anyway.

Presuming this is for Assn?

[Maelstrom51]

Presuming this is for Assn?

Yes, it is.

[Hotmail]

Rupture being so strong right now, our SR's Rupture is also pretty strong. I'm wondering if it's worth clipping a Rupture during the 8 Second Mimic of SR to guarantee our Reflection gets a Rupture up every SR CD we use (other than our opener).

Ideally you plan so that you don't have to 'clip' to cause your clone to put up a rupture. It's all part of the spec's complexity.

You probably know this, but like most other DoTs Rupture doesn't lose any DPS if you refresh it during 25% of the DoT's remaining base duration (so if you refresh Rupture when it has 6 seconds or less left, a new 30 second rupture will be applied and no DPS is lost. Same with Slice & Dice.).

I begin every SD+SR with a 5cp Rupture, and it works fairly well for me. That Rupture generally has to be refreshed right after the 'burst' sequence is over, making for a smooth transition.

[Deleted]

Yes, it is.

then what? and why?

[Maelstrom51]

then what? and why?

Optimal opener is Mutilate -> Rupture. You need to get venomous wounds out immediately.

[AgilityTank]

mut > rupture > mut to 5 cps + pool > SR macro > evenom > normal rotation

this will allow you to refresh a 5 cp rupture during the SR window as well as pull off a lot of specials with envenom up

[Jayma]

mut > rupture > mut to 5 cps + pool > SR macro > evenom > normal rotation

this will allow you to refresh a 5 cp rupture during the SR window as well as pull off a lot of specials with envenom up

I've been trying to test between this opener and the faster vendetta with mixed results.
If you pool to the first envenom then vendetta you are obviously getting more envenom up time.
At the same time if vendetta right after rupture you are getting more up time with prepot and most likely more up time with any proc trinket.

[Deleted]

mut > rupture > mut to 5 cps + pool > SR macro > evenom > normal rotation

this will allow you to refresh a 5 cp rupture during the SR window as well as pull off a lot of specials with envenom up

got it.

I've been doing 5 CP > Pool > Macro > Rupture > Fire off as many 5xCP Envenom as my procs allow(+ 2x vanish)