How hard is it to learn Sub?

[Artorius]

Actually, Combat is the strongest PVP spec in the current game...

And no, you can not simplify a spec complexity by just how many buttons it presses. This is just stupid.
AoC SoO Combat didn't have a lot of buttons to press and were one of the hardest specs this game ever had because of Restless blades actively changing how and when you could push CDs. Sure, you could play quite good just using shit when they get out of CD without thinking twice about it, but, just like the sims, your DPS would have a very wide range.
Another good example was Affliction and Feral, not too many buttons, but the time you pressed them could make all the difference in the world.

[Maelstrom51]

Uhh, optimal cool down usage for Combat in SoO was to use them and immediately. Using KS during AR even. It felt awful but that is how you got optimal damage. It was also easy as shit.

There were a lot of minor things you could do to optimize damage for Combat in SoO but it was an incredibly small damage increase.

[T18Z]

Actually, Combat is the strongest PVP spec in the current game...

And no, you can not simplify a spec complexity by just how many buttons it presses. This is just stupid.
AoC SoO Combat didn't have a lot of buttons to press and were one of the hardest specs this game ever had because of Restless blades actively changing how and when you could push CDs. Sure, you could play quite good just using shit when they get out of CD without thinking twice about it, but, just like the sims, your DPS would have a very wide range.
Another good example was Affliction and Feral, not too many buttons, but the time you pressed them could make all the difference in the world.

Combat AoC was not difficult, never really has been, it's just mind numbingly spammy. The same can be said for assassination and its relatively ease too. Subtlety has been the only consistent complex spec we've had for a while now, particularly in Cataclsym and beyond.

To say Combat AoC was one of the hardest specs the game has ever seen is beyond ridiculous, it was one of the easiest.

[Artorius]

To say Combat AoC was one of the hardest specs the game has ever seen is beyond ridiculous, it was one of the easiest.

That just proves that you know too little about it =)

[Kael]

The PvP vs. PvE discussion is not relevant to the OP's question. If, in the future, the difference in difficulties between players and AI is relevant, be prepared to back up statements toward either argument with fact. Ignorance isn't a reason to post.

[T18Z]

That just proves that you know too little about it =)

Or it just demonstrates that you struggled to play one of the easiest specs in the game. Either that or you are just trying to overcomplicate and overvalue the skill required to play combat effectively.

[Maelstrom51]

That just proves that you know too little about it =)

I had several top 10 west parses for Combat in heroic SoO and it was not a difficult spec. To get 98% optimal damage all you had to do was keep SnD up, keep RvS up, and spam SS and cooldowns. Yes, there were more complex things you could do to squeeze out another 2%, but getting very very close to optimal was not difficult at all.

[ro9ue]

I've only ever played Assassination and I love it but Shadowcraft says I would do 1.5k DPS more if I was in Sub which made me want to learn it. My current problem is that I feel overwhelmed by everything I have to keep track of. Also I am not used to getting so many CP from criticals. Any tips?

OP, reread that bolded part again that you wrote. You love playing Assassination. That should be the only answer you need right there.

I've been playing Assassination for years myself, I check out Sub and Combat now and then, but ultimately I like the poison theme and the overall simplicity of the spec. It means I can actually look at the game world, easily move out of fire and enjoy myself. You also have to take into consideration that Shadowcraft is basing that on an optimal purely numbers scenario. If in practice, you make a few more rotational errors because its hard to pay attention to mechanics with a harder rotation, you might not even achieve that 1.5k dps.

IMO that's Blizzards job to make sure the spec you find the most fun is doing as well as the others, and you shouldnt feel like you should play something you don't like for a few extra dps. And if you're in a guild that is forcing you to spec something you don't like, I would leave.

[PessimiStick]

That just proves that you know too little about it =)

Says the LFR hero who clearly has no idea what he's talking about.

Mut --> Combat --> Sub in terms of complexity. Has been that way for quite a long time. The only thing that varies is which ones are actually solid damage.

[Dracovian]

OP, reread that bolded part again that you wrote. You love playing Assassination. That should be the only answer you need right there.

I've been playing Assassination for years myself, I check out Sub and Combat now and then, but ultimately I like the poison theme and the overall simplicity of the spec. It means I can actually look at the game world, easily move out of fire and enjoy myself. You also have to take into consideration that Shadowcraft is basing that on an optimal purely numbers scenario. If in practice, you make a few more rotational errors because its hard to pay attention to mechanics with a harder rotation, you might not even achieve that 1.5k dps.

IMO that's Blizzards job to make sure the spec you find the most fun is doing as well as the others, and you shouldnt feel like you should play something you don't like for a few extra dps. And if you're in a guild that is forcing you to spec something you don't like, I would leave.

Thank you so much for those words. You are right. Sub was making it feel like a chore for me and I never surpassed the numbers I had with Assassination during my practice. Bottom line is I don't have fun with Sub and fun should be the main reason to play. Thanks again and to everyone else who contributed.

[Deleted]

The moderator remember to you, you're going far away the topic.

I had always play Assassination and ,as you said, now it said Sub is the better. So, now, i try to play it and everybody would be agree with me, Sub is more brain than the others Spec. In Combat or Assassination, we have to only hold one buff/dot but in Sub we have to hold three spells and to use our spells according to them.
But that's not because it said that Sub is better as you will do more DPS, if you don't know how to play Sub, you will do less DPS. Play the Spec where you're the better, where you control her.

Learn how to play Sub is not difficult but to control her, that's an other thing.

Ps: I'm French player, please, forgive me for my English.

[Deleted]

The moderator remember to you, you're going far away the topic.

I had always play Assassination and ,as you said, now it said Sub is the better. So, now, i try to play it and everybody would be agree with me, Sub is more brain than the others Spec. In Combat or Assassination, we have to only hold one buff/dot but in Sub we have to hold three spells and to use our spells according to them.
But that's not because it said that Sub is better as you will do more DPS, if you don't know how to play Sub, you will do less DPS. Play the Spec where you're the better, where you control her.

Learn how to play Sub is not difficult but to control her, that's an other thing.

Ps: I'm French player, please, forgive me for my English.

Well, usually she let's you think you are the better who's in control, but in reality, it's the other way around. She's controlling you mate ;-)

[Deleted]

I don't care of the fact that she said, i just want to answer the question. And to try to find some tricks or advics about the Sub. That's why I hate the HS.

[Sicarius87]

learn how to push hemmorage and then learn how to push eviscerate...

Because proper CD usage, tracking find weakness and keeping SnD and rupture up 100% of the time isnt part of the rotation at all. Right?

[Artorius]

I had several top 10 west parses for Combat in heroic SoO and it was not a difficult spec. To get 98% optimal damage all you had to do was keep SnD up, keep RvS up, and spam SS and cooldowns. Yes, there were more complex things you could do to squeeze out another 2%, but getting very very close to optimal was not difficult at all.

That was my point, easy to get almost everything right but very tricky to get the last portion.

Says the LFR hero who clearly has no idea what he's talking about.

Stopped raiding mid tier last raid. You needed 5 minutes on warcraftlogs to see that I beat you in half the fights, so please, keep your insults to yourself.

And @OP, you should play the spec you like the most, unless you're doing some cutting edge progression or cares a lot about delivering all of your character.
Sub's gameplay is a little more forgiving than it was, mainly because of pandemic allowing you to refresh SnD and Rupt in-between FW windows more easily. The only annoying thing taht you'll have to live with is the new rupture mechanic with multistrikes. Managing timers, energy pooling and the slightly faster finisher usage will be natural once you practice a little.

[PessimiStick]

Stopped raiding mid tier last raid. You needed 5 minutes on warcraftlogs to see that I beat you in half the fights, so please, keep your insults to yourself.

You don't beat me on any fight, because you aren't even raiding. Not that you would if you were, either.

[eezzee]

Just study logs and then go to the target dummy and get the rotation down.

[Kael]

Clearly this discussion can't go anywhere other than into the flames. If you want to argue about who knows more about a spec, take it to PMs.

Related: moderator actions aren't for open discussion in the forum in which they appear. If you have a problem with any of my actions, you can PM me or one of the global mods about my behavior.