Why Are We Even Dealing With HighMaul?

[Friendlyimmolation]

It's actually kind of pathetic, really. Kargath died in the place he escaped from all those years ago, and even ended up being entertainment for the people that had put him in chains in the first place.

In Blizzard's original plan he escaped instead of dying the pathetic death he has now. Why Blizzard changed it I do not know.

[Deleted]

@Lolretadin: I agree, i think i just misread your post. I guess Kargath had no choice there, attacking the Ogre would've been the downfall of the iron horde, not attacking us would've been a sign of weakness infront of a dangerous ally, so he had to attack us i guess. But we all knew how that will end.

Still, what happend to Koragh to be immune to magic? (Im 100% Khadgar wants that ability, reading the quest text of the legendary q)
What's up with Chogall and the Pale?

[Tenjen]

given what chogall was upto in nagrand, high maul was a very close target. not sure if its alright to post spoilers given not everyone has finished the raid.

also the banter between the sorcerer king and Kargath was just heavy handed mocking banter between two rulers who are allied but really don't like each other and are pushing around their red blooded manliness and ego, exchanging thinly veiled insults even as they go about their alliance together.

[Zuben]

Gorians are allies to the Iron Horde and therefore a threat to us, then we also need their magical artifacts and stuff in order to receive MOAR POWWAAAAAH!

[Lolretadin]

It IS relevant, as when you are surrounded by a force significantly more powerful than your own (Such as the Imperator in the Arena full of Iron Horde) you are not in a position to insult. The shift in power is clear. The Iron Horde dominates the Ogres, not the other way around/

Mar'gok is the one insulting Kargath, not the other way around.
Mar'gok knows his position, he and his Ogres are more valuable to the Iron Horde than Kargath.

Should I repeat the history of what happened last time the Ogres fought Kargath and an army of Orcs? Nevermind that Grom was right up in the stands WITH Kargath - The two of them alone would likely take out half of the remaining Ogres.

Grom being there doesn't matter, he likely wouldn't have intervened if there was a fight between Mar'gok and Kargath, or at least he wouldn't if he had any sense. If Kargath attacked Mar'gok, he would have been left to die by the Iron Horde that were there, and even if he weren't, you are completely disregarding the fact that the Ogres have a much more powerful force in Highmaul than the Iron Horde, mostly confined to the upper spires. "Why is that relevant", you may ask? Because Mor'gok has shown he can teleport, or at least fly while in a magical-ball-thing.

On what grounds do you believe they no longer have large bastions? We only capture a few, and the others we strategically invade to take out the leader - Who I'd imagine can be replaced. They are all functional, only temporarily shut down.

On the grounds that I actually read Quest Text while questing. Go do the quests and then come back.

Except they could, because they have no problems making enemies with the Draenei, Laughing Skull, Rexxar, THEMSELVES in Talador (Doomhammer), the Frostwolves, and the Shadow Council, nevermind many smaller enemies in the wilds of Draenor. Why would the Ogres be any different than the dozens of others?

And their whole "making new enemies" has gone wonderfully for them, losing consistently in every "zone" in Draenor. The ONLY place that they haven't lost ground is Tanaan.
Should also be said that the Ogres, before the Iron Horde, were the most powerful army on Draenor. You really want to claim that the Iron Horde would be willing to make an enemy of the now 3rd most powerful force on Draenor (After the Azerothian armies and themselves)? Hell, we already know that after the loss of Highmaul and the Blackrock foundry, they're going to be turning to the Burning Legion and the Sargerai for help.

Simple. They wouldn't be. The Iron Horde would not make enemies with literally everything on Draenor and make an exception for the Ogres - Especially not given Kargath's history with the Ogres. And the Ogres would not willingly allow someone like Kargath to be their leader unless they know there is no chance of survival if he doesn't. The shift in power is very, very clear. The Ogres know they can't fight the Iron Horde. It makes no sense for the Imperator to insult Kargath and for Kargath to sit and take it.

Think about the issue before comment.
The Ogres allied with the Iron Horde because they were afraid of the Iron Horde, not Kargath and his Shattered Hand. Highmaul, and Mor'gok, are more important to the Iron Horde than Kargath is, because no matter how good of a Warrior he is, he is not worth more than an army of Ogres and Ogron, especially when the Ogres wield magics that allow for the mass-producing of magical weapons and armors.

[Deleted]

Ehh it's not really our style we go into a place kill everything that looks at us funny and when they're all dead we move on, but it's okay we're the good guys!

I know it's gameplay, but this has me convinced we are secretly the 'bad guys'. Wouldn't that be a plot twist

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In Blizzard's original plan he escaped instead of dying the pathetic death he has now. Why Blizzard changed it I do not know.

Because they do the escape-at-the-last-second thing far to often and they finally noticed?

[tristannarutofan]

I guess for the same reason we needed to spend a month or two practicing our jousting skills to prove we can fight the Lich King, or for the same reason that even though we might be exalted with all the main race factions we still somehow need to prove ourselves and get rep with other people or groups who are in the Alliance or Horde (depending who you play). I mean, why did we as lore heroes who are held in the most highest regard among our faction need to also gain rep with things like the Kirin Tor or with Operation Shieldwall? It's like if Michael Jordan had went to a different team and had to start off as the waterboy even though he was already held as one of the best players ever. Did the Kirin Tor Offensive say "well this person has literally saved the world multiple times, but he needs to prove himself to us by stomping on some cockroaches and killing trolls repeatedly day after day for a long time"?

Or all the reasons listed.

Also we aren't gaining reputation to prove ourselves. The loot is just a carrot on a stick. Lore wise we are fighting alongside those people and so they are becoming familiar with us.

Also will never understand why people think its a good idea to send any loser remotely dangerous to go join the enemy.

[gcsmith]

I know it's gameplay, but this has me convinced we are secretly the 'bad guys'. Wouldn't that be a plot twist

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Because they do the escape-at-the-last-second thing far to often and they finally noticed?

Yes, the raid bosses escape at last second far too often? Wait... no they don't. Only major raid boss who has survived anything was Kael'thas who A) According to his talking in the fight mentions he's already sideded with Kil'jeadan, and B) After the fight taunted us saying we hadn't actually killed him.