Confused abot dmg of mages in my raid

[Armbre]

honestly I think its preference. I like Blazing Speed better. AND ( BIG AND ) you can Blazing Speed thru force Nova for reduced damage

edit: glyph of splitting ice, glyph of icy veins and glyph of water elemental

you can blink though force nova for 0 dmg just have to blink when its pretty close to you

[Deleted]

you can blink though force nova for 0 dmg just have to blink when its pretty close to you

Especially useful in p4 to not cause any explosions.

[Razuelo]

you can blink though force nova for 0 dmg just have to blink when its pretty close to you

im aware, in P3 their are 3 force Nova's, I usually blink 1, blazing another, and greater invis/ice barrier the last.

[Deleted]

im aware, in P3 their are 3 force Nova's, I usually blink 1, blazing another, and greater invis/ice barrier the last.

With Glyph of Rapid Displacement you can blink them all. Just might need to back up for a bit for the last nova but easily done either way.

[Mountain Called Monkey]

Ok since I mostly play frost and hate arcane with a passion, I'll only look at the Frost Mages for the logs provided. After checking the Butcher fights, it's pretty obvious what's up. Also I'm not sure what the popular opinion of this is, but I prefer using Warcraft Logs instead of World of Logs. Reason being is Warcraft provides an event timetable which elaborates the order on what spells were casted when and how the player lined up Cooldowns.

Starting with Keitrop:
He's over casting Ice Lance and Frostfire Bolt by a ridiculous amount on a patchwerkish fight. He casted 53 Ice Lances but only had 30 instances of Fingers of Frost. This is such a large dps loss even when moving, which is barely the case in Butcher unless he's the person moving in and out. Even then, he can just use Ice Floes instead of wasting a GCD with ice lance. He also hardcasted 3 Frostfire Bolts without the Brain Freeze proc. There's no need for this ever. He should only cast Frostfire Bolt with Brain Freeze, anything else is a dps loss.

About Ezdo:
He's more of a gearing issue. With his ilvl he should be above 25% multistrike unbuffed, but he's below 17%. This problem is showcased by the low number of Brain Freeze procs (Only 12 compared to the other mage with 20). He should start replacing some of the non-multistrike gear as soon as possible.

This all I can really tell with these logs. It's hard to see how their CD's were used without a timetable so that may also be a factor in their poor performance. But in reality they shouldn't be pulling this low of damage with their gear on such an easy dps fight. For reference my 640 ilvl geared Mage can pull an easy 20k on butcher

[Armbre]

im aware, in P3 their are 3 force Nova's, I usually blink 1, blazing another, and greater invis/ice barrier the last.

if i remember correctly you can jump them also but i may be wrong because i was really tired when we were doing imp, (i actually fell asleep for about 20secs at one point on the last attempt =/ )

[Corazu]

honestly I think its preference. I like Blazing Speed better. AND ( BIG AND ) you can Blazing Speed thru force Nova for reduced damage

edit: glyph of splitting ice, glyph of icy veins and glyph of water elemental

I need to teach you the ways of Ice Floes. It's godly, especially on that fight. I'm never not casting a spell anymore. Even on butcher, you cast ice floes when he's about to knockback and just keep on casting your frostbolt.

Granted, with my G600 it's easy to map these spells so I can trigger them on the move. I used to prefer BS>IFloes as well, but it's mostly a matter of getting used to it. My only problem now is pressing ice floes in my garrison when I'm wanting to blazing speed into the salvage yard :P

[Aphrel]

margoth suck for frostmages.. the constant charges and tanks repositioning the boss due to fire makes crystal compeltly aids to use. i often dont end up on more then 24-28k on the fight even thou i normaly push 30k+ on singletarget fights.

[Deleted]

margoth suck for frostmages.. the constant charges and tanks repositioning the boss due to fire makes crystal compeltly aids to use. i often dont end up on more then 24-28k on the fight even thou i normaly push 30k+ on singletarget fights.

Thats impressive. only 15 mages on warcraftlogs push 30k dps on butcher(hc) and 3 on Butcher(mythic)

[Deleted]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/PyGBRv9ajKNkx2Yq

Legit logs from wiping on margok. Still not dead. After time we kicked mages and like 6 other braindead dps.

[Deleted]

Think you need to kick some more dps

[Deleted]

What do you mean? We have some fights in our roster and im starting to loosing right direction in choosing who sucks who dont. Id like to ask you as outsiders to tell me who literally sucks.

[Deleted]

Granted, with my G600 it's easy to map these spells so I can trigger them on the move. I used to prefer BS>IFloes as well, but it's mostly a matter of getting used to it. My only problem now is pressing ice floes in my garrison when I'm wanting to blazing speed into the salvage yard :P

Why blazing speed into the salvage yard when you can icefloes mount and get there that way?

[Deleted]

Hi,

I think the numbers you see are normal, any talent spec might work for anyfight is personal choice and personal skill, im not being elitist but ur mages are not top of the line, their raiding experience is null, so dont spec from them a very high performance, here you can compare the damage and what good mages do and what average and bad mages do in HC butcher with the current ilvl

frost logs
Arcane Logs

[Sheridanjohn]

Thats impressive. only 15 mages on warcraftlogs push 30k dps on butcher(hc) and 3 on Butcher(mythic)

A lot of guilds progressing don't have public logs, a huge amount of higher end parses are missing from rankings

[Deleted]

saving mirror images 1min for the second iv to come up

What is your reasoning behind this? MI are on a 2 minute cooldown, saving them for a minute means 50% worth of damage of one MI cast is lost. I have a hard time believing that 45% MS with 66% uptime over MI's duration makes up for that loss (it doesn't).

[Airunel]

A lot of guilds progressing don't have public logs, a huge amount of higher end parses are missing from rankings

So a new rule should be "Logs or it didn't happen"!

*Not saying you don't agree so

[Torian kel]

What is your reasoning behind this? MI are on a 2 minute cooldown, saving them for a minute means 50% worth of damage of one MI cast is lost. I have a hard time believing that 45% MS with 66% uptime over MI's duration makes up for that loss (it doesn't).

I agree with you, I always use them on CD and also have a hard time believing that keeping them just for IV seems like a minute wasted. If anyone has math to support either claim i'd gladly welcome it, I need every bit of dps i can squeeze out of the spec for progression on M Brackenspore right now

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Why blazing speed into the salvage yard when you can icefloes mount and get there that way?

Ice floes mounting and disenchanting are the best things ever to be given to mages.

[unbound]

I will post logs around 00:00 today after raid so you can see whats going wrong. Thanks for current responses
Atm arcane talents :
Evanesce
Flameglow
Ice Ward
Cauterize
Supernova
Incanter's Flow
Overpowered

1frost:
Ice Floes
Ice Barrier
Ring of Frost
Cauterize
Frost Bomb
Mirror Image
Thermal Void

otherfrost:
Ice Floes
Alter Time
Frostjaw
Cauterize
Frost Bomb
Mirror Image
Prismatic Crystal

My 2 cents for the frost mages (frost mage is my main).

For movement heavy fights, Ice Floes is fine (Blazing Speed is also actually fine as it gets you to a new position very quickly which is worth as much many times).

Unless there is constant damage, Tier 2 should be Ice Barrier (GCD loss, but better protection most of the time and reduces casting interruptions)...Alter Time is only beneficial when you really, really know the fight and can time it correctly.

Tier 4 I would recommend Greater Invisibility over Cauterize if the healers are struggling even a bit. If Cauterize procs, you either need to use Evanesce or Ice Block to nullify the DoT or you put increased pressure on the healers (obviously if the healers are not struggling at all, then Cauterize is a good choice). GI (even if it lasts for less than 1 sec) reduces 90% of the damage taken for 3 sec.

Tier 5 Frost Bomb is technically a good choice, but in practice it is difficult to optimize, so Ice Nova is actually a dps increase for most players (and isn't far off from Frost Bomb anyways even when Frost Bomb usage is optimized).

Tier 6 Mirror Image is typically the best for single target. If possible, cast it with Thermal Void, but it shouldn't be delayed notably just to align (pretty sure this has been confirmed by min/maxers) with TV.

Tier 7 Thermal Void is the only real choice for movement heavy battles (Comet Storm even with the buff still isn't worth it). It can usually be aligned with Frost Orb (since that is on a 60 sec timer) to help generate FoF to get it extended (as well as hitting with Water Jet with FB to get more FoF). Regardless, Frost Bomb with Thermal Void (1st frost mage) is never considered a good choice to maximize damage.