6.2 Retribution Theorycraft & Discussion

[Titans]

It really depends on your comfort level and your ability to maintain the rotation. Seraphim will be your best bet for a 99% percentile speed kill and if the fight is, generally, shorter than ~45 seconds HA/Sera can be slightly more dps than SW/Sera. Yet, this comes down to preference because I've seen some 100% all itemlevel parses of SW/Sera instead of HA/Sera on M Zakuun.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...1&type=summary

To be frank, parsing is somewhat regardless because getting the best parses usually have to do with abusing mechanics or having extreme dps. I'd say to try SW/Sera unless your guild can down these bosses in less than 45 seconds then go HA/Sera

That wasn't my question though! My question was why a lot of the top ranking rets on some speed kills (eg iron reaver and fel lord) didn't use empowered divine storm procs when seraphim was up. I figured even if TV hit harder than empowered divine storm, it would be worth it because you dont have to waste time generating holy power to use it.

[BrassTheRet]

That wasn't my question though! My question was why a lot of the top ranking rets on some speed kills (eg iron reaver and fel lord) didn't use empowered divine storm procs when seraphim was up. I figured even if TV hit harder than empowered divine storm, it would be worth it because you dont have to waste time generating holy power to use it.

If some BE ret pallies aren't using their Divine Cruasder proc on a single target fight then maybe it's because you're looking at a 100% percentile parse that uses 0 healers and 1 tank. DC^DS>=CS>J is a general rule, but of course like anything else in reality, there are exceptions. Lets say you're running Libram W/ Sera and SW and your guild uses Thorasus on the pull, it's probably better for you to ignore the DC proc for seraphim.

I looked under the top 10 parses for Reaver and Zakunn, and it looks like their DC use is possible situational. The 100% all itemlevel of Reaver has no DS casts, but he got 4 DC procs -- this might be because he's HA and getting as many TV, CS and HoW is crucial for the Thorasus burst. Take note that using a DC proc, doesn't give 3 Holy power and that's more important than a slightly buffed DS. Take notice how out of the 20 parses, most of the parses had at least 1 cast of DC^DS.

It's situational to ignore a DC because the top parses are HA/Sera W/Crit crafting trinket and Scabbard -- not using any HFC trinkets. Since you would generally prioritize it higher on the rotation (e.g., During his replay he would auto attack for at least 1 second with a DC proc and still not use up the proc even with a free gcd.) There's a reason for this, TV is our largest weapon modifier ability -- meaning that the more strength, the higher on the priority list. Take note that HA+AW+Sera+Thorasus+Strength Pot+Scabbard+35% crit is an enormous damage increase. DS modifier is also nearly 130-140% (depends on patch) weaker than TV, in fact, I believe the modifier for auto attack is higher than DS, but I'm not entirely sure about it. I guess the main idea to take away from this is how they ignored their Divine Crausder proc because they had extreme strength rating.

[Yardu]

With a bunch of logs I've been doing I seem to be doing best on gorefiend with gronntooth warhorn and arch trinket. Is this the best trinket combo for gore?

[Deleted]

With a bunch of logs I've been doing I seem to be doing best on gorefiend with gronntooth warhorn and arch trinket. Is this the best trinket combo for gore?

Depends what trinkets you have and at what level. I'd be surprised if the heirloom is more useful than heroic EDH for Gorefiend, though.

[BrassTheRet]

With a bunch of logs I've been doing I seem to be doing best on gorefiend with gronntooth warhorn and arch trinket. Is this the best trinket combo for gore?

I would say Libram/EDH is your best bet because of how EDH scales with our class. Are you looking at 100% percentile for heroic because Libram/EDH should pull ahead in realistic situations.

[Cress]

Mythic zakuun progression around 2 minutes fight.

My options are H LoV, HWF Socket EDH, M UH, M RP, GWH.

Which one would you choose (i'm pure tunneling the boss during the first 1:40)

[BrassTheRet]

Mythic zakuun progression around 2 minutes fight.

My options are H LoV, HWF Socket EDH, M UH, M RP, GWH.

Which one would you choose (i'm pure tunneling the boss during the first 1:40)

Libram & EDH are the most stable but going UH/GWH & EDH are better openers. I've also seen top parsing rets going: UH&GWH, GWH&Crit crafting trinket -- but these are for 99% speed kill parses and if you're progressing on Mythic Zakunn then stability is probably your best choice. Unless your guild is struggling with certain phases and mechanics then go GWH/UH&EDH for easier openers.

[OrcsRLame]

So, I feel kind of dumb asking this question so late in the tier, but my guild just started progressing on mythic Archimonde, and I'm having some trouble deciding what trinkets to use. I know the top parses all use Libram and EDH, but naturally I only have a heroic WF Libram. Not only that, but those parses don't seem very realistic for progression, with lots of them having 96%+ uptime on Libram. If I'm gonna be switching to adds and such, that seems like a poor choice.

Anywho, I have mythic EDH, mythic WF DC, mythic UH, heroic WF Libram and GWH.

[Deleted]

Libram is more for when it's on farm, as you noted. EDH and UH will do you.

[BrassTheRet]

That's exactly why I use GWH on M arch, besides me not having M UH, because of all the target switching and my guild doesn't have M arch on farm, and people are usually messing up a mechanic that causes me to lose x3 libram. Notice how most top parses are months old, and that's because ret has been slightly nerfed over the months. I remember 4p being nerfed and the nerf to UH was a sad day.

I would say to go UH+EDH until Arch is on farm, tbh. The micromangement of making sure you have a 99% uptime on x3 Libram is too difficult during progression because keeping x3 Libram during seething cinders is quite aggravating.

[Gio]

currently on M arch progress and have these logs any advice?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1799&wipes=1

[Deleted]

currently on M arch progress and have these logs any advice?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1799&wipes=1

Not sure I'd use two AWs in a row at the start but I don't know your precise conditions. But you're putting the damage into the priority targets and keeping your stacks of LoV up so steady as she goes I'd say. Just need to wait until you're getting into phase 3.

[Gio]

Not sure I'd use two AWs in a row at the start but I don't know your precise conditions. But you're putting the damage into the priority targets and keeping your stacks of LoV up so steady as she goes I'd say. Just need to wait until you're getting into phase 3.

we were trying to get him below 70% before 2nd doomfire, so that's why 2 wings in a row

[-Rufio-]

we were trying to get him below 70% before 2nd doomfire, so that's why 2 wings in a row

2 wings in a row is fine. although you had like a 1-2 second gap inbetween them. Your opener is all wrong too. You start with judgement for some reason. If its because you start far away, have one of your rogues cloak you so you can stand next to the boss at start. You arcane torrent 2 seconds into the fight when i believe its suppose to be at the start (dont know i play alliance). You also dont cast execution sentence until 30-31 seconds into the fight on both of your best pulls.

Opener should be prepot, Execution Sentence > Avenging Wrath > Hammer of Wrath > Crusader Strike

and that should all be done in the first 2 seconds of the fight. Not sure where arcane torrent fits in.

Im at work so thats all i saw for now. Someone else might be able to help better.

[saitao]

I have a doubt , I'm trying to give the best of me , dps , I do not speak much English, I used goggle translator, I'm trying hard , I have many doubts , I began to use the serafin short time, was seeing very sites , always bis gear have alot hast as Archimonde boots , xhrull HORAC bracelet, I had tested earlier in heroic mastery was better to me , im 11/13 mythic , trying to progression in manaroth , my dps and very low compared to the logs , i using hekili addons to help , more time in the logs I get it more active, 99% + any idea to help me ?


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done that is my best perfom on this bosses.

[Deleted]

When it comes to the imps, you don't seem to be saving Light's Hammer for them. Also trying to make sure that your stacks of Wings of Liberty match up to the use of Light's Hammer. You will probably find Final Verdict better suited to the fight than Seraphim. Don't compare yourself to the top parses on Warcraftlogs, they are killing the boss on easy farm - you are progressing. You should also have Seal of Righteousness up whenever adds are (even the Doomlord. There's no need to rush to switch back to Truth because there will only be adds up again shortly anyway.

[saitao]

When it comes to the imps, you don't seem to be saving Light's Hammer for them. Also trying to make sure that your stacks of Wings of Liberty match up to the use of Light's Hammer. You will probably find Final Verdict better suited to the fight than Seraphim. Don't compare yourself to the top parses on Warcraftlogs, they are killing the boss on easy farm - you are progressing. You should also have Seal of Righteousness up whenever adds are (even the Doomlord. There's no need to rush to switch back to Truth because there will only be adds up again shortly anyway.

thanks that helped alot... i always see your videos , the problem that my English is not so good , I do not understand all think ...
and about gear Breach-Scarred Wristplates from xhul horac and Treads of the Defiler from arquimonde, is really better?that give too much haste,that is no lost a better status?

[BrassTheRet]

2 wings in a row is fine. although you had like a 1-2 second gap inbetween them. Your opener is all wrong too. You start with judgement for some reason. If its because you start far away, have one of your rogues cloak you so you can stand next to the boss at start. You arcane torrent 2 seconds into the fight when i believe its suppose to be at the start (dont know i play alliance). You also dont cast execution sentence until 30-31 seconds into the fight on both of your best pulls.

Opener should be prepot, Execution Sentence > Avenging Wrath > Hammer of Wrath > Crusader Strike

and that should all be done in the first 2 seconds of the fight. Not sure where arcane torrent fits in.

Im at work so thats all i saw for now. Someone else might be able to help better.

Rotations are highly dependent on whether you're horde and your talent+trinket setup (i.e., all non-BE pally's have a different opener for seraphim.) Having 99% uptime on Libram is a dps increase in contrast with UH or GWH through a fight, but not during an opener.

Not using Libram: Execution Sentence > Avenging Wrath (.5-.8 seconds after ExS so the final tick hits with x10 WOL) > HoW>CS>HoW>FV>HoW>CS>HoW (repeat until AW fades). It's more dps to auto attack and ignore Judgment and especially Exorcism during an opener, so that you can get as many HoW, CS and FV as possible during your Thorasus.

Divine Crusader procs are also generally ignored unless you have less than 3 holy power w/CS on cooldown because Divine Storm doesn't give holy power. There is also a trick that can be used for a good opener and that's saving your DC procs for cleave damage (e.g., Doomfire, Deathcaller and P3 adds); especially if you can get a DC^DS onto the doomfire with high WOL. I'm under multistrike cap and w/o Hellrender, and I can occasionally do 470k openers with GwH and EDH if I get a DC^DS on the doomfire and deathcaller.

[Gio]

what's this Multistrike Cap?

these are my unbuffed stats


Critical: 13.39
Haste: 13.84
Mastery: 70.09
Multistrike: 28.38

[Lumineus]

Nothing you need to worry about. MS cap is 100%. Pretty sure it's independent from the normal combat table, so glances nor crit suppression have any effect.