[Prot] Is the Prot DPS spec viable?

[DisRuptive1]

I heard about a Prot DPS spec going around that uses a 2-handed weapon. Just wondering if it's viable.

Holy Power Generators

• Crusader Strike
• Judgement
• Holy Wrath (talented)

HP Spenders

• Word of Glory (Glyphed)
• Seraphim

Additional Damage

• Consecration
• Level 90 talent (Probably Execution Sentence)

[Theck]

The 2H weapon version probably isn't viable, because you would lose access to Avenger's Shield. Since CS is the only thing that depends on weapon damage, it's probably not worth worrying about using a 2H at all.

[hashtags]

The 2H weapon version probably isn't viable, because you would lose access to Avenger's Shield. Since CS is the only thing that depends on weapon damage, it's probably not worth worrying about using a 2H at all.

Ok but what about have a prot tank just as a dps at this stage, like with shield and 1h but rigtheous fury off. Do you think it will be viable?

[Kanadei]

Ok but what about have a prot tank just as a dps at this stage, like with shield and 1h but rigtheous fury off. Do you think it will be viable?

Firstly, no I don't think it would be viable.

But since you have piqued my interest, I thought I could share a solution to the 2hander concept. While levelling an alt prot pally for funsies (because.. yeah I like prot pallys) I was using my heirloom 2hander while tanking and macro'd swapping a shield on specifically for using AS and then back off again.

Sadly I couldn't do this in one macro, so just made a /equip shield+1hander button and then macro'd Avenger's Shield to automatically swap back to a 2hander after I cast it.

... Might be smarter to tweak it the other way around in case of AS procs, not sure, but worth looking at instead of ditching the 2hander idea completely.

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Since CS is the only thing that depends on weapon damage, it's probably not worth worrying about using a 2H at all.

You are a man far more mathematically minded than I but wouldn't the autoswing damage that a 2hander brings be worth considering in addition to the extra damage it brings to CS?

[Zantos]

Ok but what about have a prot tank just as a dps at this stage, like with shield and 1h but rigtheous fury off. Do you think it will be viable?

Not a chance. Tanks are not meant to be a viable dps. You will not get into progression content as a "dps" when you're really a prot paladin just chillin. Unless they give it something like gladiator stance, its not viable and its not meant to be for dps.

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You are a man far more mathematically minded than I but wouldn't the autoswing damage that a 2hander brings be worth considering in addition to the extra damage it brings to CS?

Just a thought on that, 2hands Do swing a lot slower then a 1hander.

[TyloBedo]

Firstly, no I don't think it would be viable.

But since you have piqued my interest, I thought I could share a solution to the 2hander concept. While levelling an alt prot pally for funsies (because.. yeah I like prot pallys) I was using my heirloom 2hander while tanking and macro'd swapping a shield on specifically for using AS and then back off again.

Sadly I couldn't do this in one macro, so just made a /equip shield+1hander button and then macro'd Avenger's Shield to automatically swap back to a 2hander after I cast it.

... Might be smarter to tweak it the other way around in case of AS procs, not sure, but worth looking at instead of ditching the 2hander idea completely.

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You are a man far more mathematically minded than I but wouldn't the autoswing damage that a 2hander brings be worth considering in addition to the extra damage it brings to CS?

I havent played prot in awhile but just wanted to chime in and mention that weapon swapping resets your swing timer and also incurs a gcd, so weapons swapping really isn't that great.

[Kanadei]

I havent played prot in awhile but just wanted to chime in and mention that weapon swapping resets your swing timer and also incurs a gcd, so weapons swapping really isn't that great.

At least at low levels it was a huge dps increase for me swapping just to do AS and then back, but maybe 1-2 wasted GCDs every now and then isn't an issue at that level.

Would be interesting to see if the GCD you lose is worth the dps you gain, also if you had a swing timer addon you could minimise lost damage from swing timer resets.

All of this is purely theoretical of course, just interesting to think about.

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Just a thought on that, 2hands Do swing a lot slower then a 1hander.

True... but does this matter for anything except on hit proc effects? Like do faster weapons actually increase up time on anything like trinkets/procs/abilities for a paladin?

Only thing that comes to mind off the top of my head is censure stacking quicker.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

The 2H weapon version probably isn't viable, because you would lose access to Avenger's Shield. Since CS is the only thing that depends on weapon damage, it's probably not worth worrying about using a 2H at all.

You can make a macro that equipps your shield + 1H for avenger's shield that also equipps back your 2h instantly. I did Tectus heroic as prot dps and ended up at 26k dps with no practice and 642-ish ilvl. Is it viable for heroic raids? Yes. Is it viable for Mythic? Doubt it, maybe (big maybe) on some cleave fights if you got the gear and required macros + "skill" to pull it off.

Regardless it's a lot of fun, I did it on beta (even after prot nerfs) it's a very fun way to play + seeing Holy Wrath critting for 200K + on sub 20% targets is amazing. You also have the added benefit of being perfectly able to tank FOREVUR if the set tanks die.

I also do it for pvp, arenas in blue gear and hitting 100k Holy Wrath is so much fun+ the survival is godz mode.

[Zantos]

True... but does this matter for anything except on hit proc effects? Like do faster weapons actually increase up time on anything like trinkets/procs/abilities for a paladin?

Only thing that comes to mind off the top of my head is censure stacking quicker.

I don't prot paladin anymore, but unless they did a huge numbers change, your hardest hitting abilities as a prot paladin are avengers shield and Shield of the righteous. There is just nothing that would make a prot paladin viable. Going 1h or 2h, doesn't really make a difference as far as the question of being able to do a dps role.

[DrTerrier]

Just adding my 2 cents here. I have only done brackenspore/Margok as a prot "dps" (i.e without RF), and I've done about 28.5k on both fights.
This obviously with 1h/shield, and Harsh words. I wouldn't call it viable, but it's not absolute garbage

[Zantos]

Just adding my 2 cents here. I have only done brackenspore/Margok as a prot "dps" (i.e without RF), and I've done about 28.5k on both fights.
This obviously with 1h/shield, and Harsh words. I wouldn't call it viable, but it's not absolute garbage

Curious. How did you manage 28.5k? Was it on burst? Under the effects of the haste mushroom? To be fair, I don't see how you could sustain 28.5k. Looking at paragons dps meteres on the butcher mythic, their lowest dps was 28.8k. So being able to sustain 28.5k would be pretty high. Better then all of my guilds dps sustained XD. So I would say if you managed 28.5k that it would be quite a bit higher then garbage and would enter the viable phase and soon after, the probably gonna get a nerf phase.

[Jinivus]

Curious. How did you manage 28.5k? Under the effects of the haste mushroom?

Pretty much haste mushroom... and margok intermission adds.

I do have a tank in my guild that does the same ridiculous damage, 23.5k on butcher and 28.1k on Imperator this week, this is also getting some top 10 rankings though.
Have a peak: Butcher(single target no gimmicks)

[Deleted]

Pretty much haste mushroom... and margok intermission adds.

I do have a tank in my guild that does the same ridiculous damage, 23.5k on butcher and 28.1k on Imperator this week, this is also getting some top 10 rankings though.
Have a peak: Butcher(single target no gimmicks)

Thats normal dps for Prot palas atm Imperator getting 30k+ is fairly easy if your on add duty and you wana be looking at 25k+ for butcher with some half decent gear.

[Deleted]

Problem is that you need to block to get SotR dmg up with alabaster shield, so that only works if you are actually tanking! But i think they should make prot dps possible... and it would be fairly easy to do so! Make abilities do competitive dps on their own, and slap a damage done reduction(like you deal 10%-20% less dmg) on RF(maybe even other tank specific mechanics also tied to RF), and make RF impossible to be cast and removed in combat(like glad stance)! There, prot dps viable + tank dps nerfed in one go! With cs, avenger, sotr, cons, holy wrath and all that crap, paly prot is better suited for dps than warrior anyway... ES + seraphim and dps away... they just need to make sure we keep using 1h+shield and not 2h :P

Hell, they could get it done in a hotfix how easy it should be to make :P just need to balance it without RF and figure out how much reduction on RF is needed to make tanks dps balanced too (unlike now)

I know i would abandon ret asap if that happened... melee priest compared to shield smacking badass? easy choice

[Theck]

You don't use SotR in a damage build, you use Harsh Words.

I think the 1h+Shield version is probably viable. Possibly the 2h version if the macro doesn't cost you much, but I suspect the combination of wasting a GCD and resetting the swing timer eliminates most of the gain from larger CS and SoT procs (and auto attacks, I guess). You may not be topping the meters, but you probably won't be the lowest DPS either.

[Deleted]

You don't use SotR in a damage build, you use Harsh Words.

I think the 1h+Shield version is probably viable. Possibly the 2h version if the macro doesn't cost you much, but I suspect the combination of wasting a GCD and resetting the swing timer eliminates most of the gain from larger CS and SoT procs (and auto attacks, I guess). You may not be topping the meters, but you probably won't be the lowest DPS either.

I mean, he is saying that his tank is doing great dps, same as paragon one... thats why i said that you cant compare their dmg while tanking to what would they do when dpsing, as alabaster boosts that shit up a lot
And my solution would be as i said up there, that they just boost dmg of prot without RF to be normal dpsing, and with RF to be lower (in line with other tanks, and some other tanking mechanics added to RF, so they cant abuse it and tank without it but doing crazy dmg anyway to hold aggro... so tanking would be nerfed without it)... so we can dps normally with SotR and everything while nerfing dmg while tanking at the same time, as you are locked to RF or without it once the fight starts! Problem solved, and paly prot dps that should have happened instead of FOURTH damn dps build for warrior, that has even worse tools for dpsing by default, injustice would be fixed :P

Having prot with 2h would be just silly... and i think they should fix it to be completely bad and not viable... 1h+shield should be viable tho... and for paladins, easy to make it work, much easier than warriors too

[sexybeast]

Not a chance. Tanks are not meant to be a viable dps. You will not get into progression content as a "dps" when you're really a prot paladin just chillin. Unless they give it something like gladiator stance, its not viable and its not meant to be for dps.

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Just a thought on that, 2hands Do swing a lot slower then a 1hander.

Prot dps is defo viable...

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...e-done&fight=3

That's just 1 7 minute log of twins mythic, I'm playing with SoT but not harsh words and still pulling off more dps then others in the guild.

But trinkets matter... A lot. Running sera with pols trinket and the impregnator one with a 1h and shield.
Wether or not we are MENT to be viable or not not is not the point, I can out dps dps classes as prot whilst still staying alive and have a fuck ton more survivability.

This is not meter cheesing at all and I never had the censure buff up on both targets 100% of the time either.

Running scabbard would be an even higher dps gain even with having to hold off for 30 secs to get everything to line up perfectly with HA.

[Theck]

I mean, he is saying that his tank is doing great dps, same as paragon one... thats why i said that you cant compare their dmg while tanking to what would they do when dpsing, as alabaster boosts that shit up a lot

Except that Harsh Words does more damage than Alabaster does, even if you're tanking full time.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...786185#p786185

Even full-time tanking, Harsh Words is ~700 DPS ahead. Factor in tank swaps and it pulls ahead even further.

In other words - you can compare their dmg while tanking to what they would do while DPSing, because they should be able to do ~1k more DPS than they are while tanking just by switching that glyph to Harsh Words.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Just to give you some numbers, highest crit on Holy Wrath I've had outside raid and no bullshit buffs/debuffs is 234k- before multistrike.
With armor pot (1,5k Attack Power), Scabbard (2,2k AP), 660 pvp str proc teinket (734 AP) and Seraphim I end up at 12k +++ Attackpower, that coupled amazing aoe and cleave tools there isn't much to hold you back from doing this seriously, Ret is stronger at the moment (thank god) but prot dps is stronger than a lot of other dps specs and I wouldn't look down at people for using it in Heroic/Normal raids.

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Except that Harsh Words does more damage than Alabaster does, even if you're tanking full time.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...786185#p786185

Even full-time tanking, Harsh Words is ~700 DPS ahead. Factor in tank swaps and it pulls ahead even further.

In other words - you can compare their dmg while tanking to what they would do while DPSing, because they should be able to do ~1k more DPS than they are while tanking just by switching that glyph to Harsh Words.

I just enjoy pvp with harsh words, can't really kite a 40 yard magic, off the gcd cast with no cd :P

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Wether or not we are MENT to be viable or not not is not the point, I can out dps dps classes as prot whilst still staying alive and have a fuck ton more survivability.

This is not meter cheesing at all and I never had the censure buff up on both targets 100% of the time either.

Running scabbard would be an even higher dps gain even with having to hold off for 30 secs to get everything to line up perfectly with HA.

Well considering how far away from a tanking setup you'd go with for prot dps build (trinkets, talents, glyphs!) I don't see the harm in it, Holy Wrath should probably be smacked a little though, tanks are supposed to do ~80% of the damage dps specs can do but were among the strongest dpsers even as prot now. (Among the strongest meaning far from bottom)

[Deleted]

Sorry that i can't really contribute but god damn, this is interesting.