DPS/HPS in CMs

[Deleted]

It is for such short encounters. It also screams 'not a single enchant on the gear, not even the cheap ones'.

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The difference between gold and lower medals has almost (almost) nothing to do with DPS, it boils down to tank's and healer's ability to keep up with pulling a lot more trash without CC'ing.

This is kind of the problem though. "No single enchant on the gear". Of course not, it's a CM run, not a raid. I've gotten bronze, even really close to silver, on runs with bad compositions without using flasks or food, which makes it hilarious that people still demand those things for normal CM runs in premade group finder. I can only assume it's people who don't raid and think CMs are super hardcore and need the best of the best, but fact is, they do not unless you're going for gold times which is a waste of time. To get past the daily, there's no reason to put enchants and crap on your blue gear.

[Marxman]

This is kind of the problem though. "No single enchant on the gear". Of course not, it's a CM run, not a raid. I've gotten bronze, even really close to silver, on runs with bad compositions without using flasks or food, which makes it hilarious that people still demand those things for normal CM runs in premade group finder. I can only assume it's people who don't raid and think CMs are super hardcore and need the best of the best, but fact is, they do not unless you're going for gold times which is a waste of time. To get past the daily, there's no reason to put enchants and crap on your blue gear.

Except, you know, giving a damn makes a good impression. Cheap enchants are called cheap enchants because... (logic leap here!) they're cheap. There's no reason not to use them. Same with Flasks. They're cheap as dirt, why would you not use them? It's free performance gain. If you aren't putting forth the effort, then don't burden others with your dead weight.

This doesn't just apply to raids, but to ALL group content. If you don't care, then don't group up for semi-difficult content with others who probably do care. Stick to random heroics, BGs, and LFR where that mentality is acceptable (and the norm).

[Deleted]

Except, you know, giving a damn makes a good impression. Cheap enchants are called cheap enchants because... (logic leap here!) they're cheap. There's no reason not to use them. Same with Flasks. They're cheap as dirt, why would you not use them? It's free performance gain. If you aren't putting forth the effort, then don't burden others with your dead weight.

This doesn't just apply to raids, but to ALL group content. If you don't care, then don't group up for semi-difficult content with others who probably do care. Stick to random heroics, BGs, and LFR where that mentality is acceptable (and the norm).

So you use flasks and demand enchants for heroic dungeons as well? Or hell, normal dungeons? I mean, it's group content right? No, because it's not required, and it's not required in CMs either. If you want to do it that's fine, but making it seem like this is required is a huge exaggeration, just like claiming 20k dps is a minimum for doing CMs. It's just standard elitism which we get in WoW all the time. "LFM CM 660+ ilvl all gold achivs link or get lost scrub, pot flask food evry fight or dont whisper. btw we're not going for gold".

[Equoowe]

The difference between gold and lower medals has almost (almost) nothing to do with DPS, it boils down to tank's and healer's ability to keep up with pulling a lot more trash without CC'ing.

Some of the big pulls aren't possible with good dps, doing big pulls become easier then pulling one pack at a time when you can kill it in a stun or while your tank has a CD up, it doesn't matter how good your tank or healer are if you don't kill some packs fast enough your tank will just flop, saying the difference between getting gold and not getting it has almost nothing to do with the DPS makes me think you haven't done any gold runs.

[wombats23]

So you use flasks and demand enchants for heroic dungeons as well? Or hell, normal dungeons? I mean, it's group content right? No, because it's not required, and it's not required in CMs either. If you want to do it that's fine, but making it seem like this is required is a huge exaggeration, just like claiming 20k dps is a minimum for doing CMs. It's just standard elitism which we get in WoW all the time. "LFM CM 660+ ilvl all gold achivs link or get lost scrub, pot flask food evry fight or dont whisper. btw we're not going for gold".

The person you quoted didn't even say that flasks, pots and food buffs are required. He said you're dead weight for actively choosing not to take advantage of them. Dead weight is an exaggeration but frankly, it's the only way to identify a player's likelihood to play well without knowing the person or having logs. YOU decided to put words in his mouth and say those consumables/enchants are required.

Comparing content requiring premade groups to random queue groups is laughable. Posts like yours are so frustrating, honestly. How is a challenge mode comparable to a heroic dungeon? You're telling me that something I have to actively pick and choose four other members is in the same level as something I merely queue for with random players?

I mean holy shit. Did you seriously glaze over the part where he explicitly mentions random heroics in his last sentence to distinguish actual group content from a random heroic?

Like, how in the world do you demand enchants in heroic dungeons? There's no screening process when you queue. "Group content" pretty obviously implies content where groups are premade by a selection process (spamming trade chat IS a selection process), not content invoking a random queue.

"Standard elitism in WoW". Yeah, that's called group leaders having standards for people they invite. There are hundreds (more than likely thousands) other players on your realm. Why should I settle for someone who isn't even shooting for a bare minimum when it's been made so easily attainable when I could just wait another minute and find someone that actually put in a slight amount of effort. Even if you are an amazing player, how is a player trying to make a premade group for group content supposed to know your skill level if you're strangers to one another?

[Polarthief]

So you use flasks and demand enchants for heroic dungeons as well? Or hell, normal dungeons? I mean, it's group content right? No, because it's not required, and it's not required in CMs either. If you want to do it that's fine, but making it seem like this is required is a huge exaggeration, just like claiming 20k dps is a minimum for doing CMs. It's just standard elitism which we get in WoW all the time. "LFM CM 660+ ilvl all gold achivs link or get lost scrub, pot flask food evry fight or dont whisper. btw we're not going for gold".

So I guess you never use Potions, Flasks, or Tonics/Healthstones, as well as DPS/Defensive Cooldowns in raiding either since they're all "optional". I mean, hell, just go in without any gems, enchants, or even gear for that matter. It's not like the game will physically stop you from doing these things. Why not also tank as a DPS or Healer spec? Again, it's all optional

PS: "Standard elitism"? Really? It's called "giving a damn and not being dead weight to your group", but you're too cheap to pop a flask that costs 8 herbs (previously 4) when you get handed so many of the damn things for FREE from your Herb Garden every day. I think I'm sitting at like 500+ of each type of herb because I never use them.

[Deleted]

The person you quoted didn't even say that flasks, pots and food buffs are required. He said you're dead weight for actively choosing not to take advantage of them. Dead weight is an exaggeration but frankly, it's the only way to identify a player's likelihood to play well without knowing the person or having logs. YOU decided to put words in his mouth and say those consumables/enchants are required.

Comparing content requiring premade groups to random queue groups is laughable. Posts like yours are so frustrating, honestly. How is a challenge mode comparable to a heroic dungeon? You're telling me that something I have to actively pick and choose four other members is in the same level as something I merely queue for with random players?

I mean holy shit. Did you seriously glaze over the part where he explicitly mentions random heroics in his last sentence to distinguish actual group content from a random heroic?

Like, how in the world do you demand enchants in heroic dungeons? There's no screening process when you queue. "Group content" pretty obviously implies content where groups are premade by a selection process (spamming trade chat IS a selection process), not content invoking a random queue.

"Standard elitism in WoW". Yeah, that's called group leaders having standards for people they invite. There are hundreds (more than likely thousands) other players on your realm. Why should I settle for someone who isn't even shooting for a bare minimum when it's been made so easily attainable when I could just wait another minute and find someone that actually put in a slight amount of effort. Even if you are an amazing player, how is a player trying to make a premade group for group content supposed to know your skill level if you're strangers to one another?

He was replying to my post. I was discussing whether or not enchants are required for CMs. The fact that he didn't specifically mention it in his post is completely irrelevant, he shouldn't have replied to me if it wasn't meant as a reply to what I was writing about.

You're making abitrary distinctions between different kinds of group content. Yes, because of the group being premade rather than put together automatically, you CAN have requirements. That doesn't mean they are reasonable. "Not even shooting for bare minimum" is a ridiculous comment in terms of enchantment and flasks when it comes to CMs. It's not the bare minimum. The bare minimum is 630+ in every slot so you're not gimping your gear, anything beyond that is a bonus. If someone performed so badly in a CM that I would feel the need to say something, I seriously doubt it would be "LOL UR NOT EVEN ENCHANTED ROFL GET OUT". It would probably be "Please learn the mechanics of the boss so you stop dying".

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So I guess you never use Potions, Flasks, or Tonics/Healthstones, as well as DPS/Defensive Cooldowns in raiding either since they're all "optional". I mean, hell, just go in without any gems, enchants, or even gear for that matter. It's not like the game will physically stop you from doing these things. Why not also tank as a DPS or Healer spec? Again, it's all optional

PS: "Standard elitism"? Really? It's called "giving a damn and not being dead weight to your group", but you're too cheap to pop a flask that costs 8 herbs (previously 4) when you get handed so many of the damn things for FREE from your Herb Garden every day. I think I'm sitting at like 500+ of each type of herb because I never use them.

Of course I do. It's a progression guild and there are certain expectations and duties in such a guild, which are completely different from being in a premade trying to finish a daily with randoms. That doesn't mean I feel it's required to do, if you fail at downing a boss it's probably not because one of the DPS forgot to pop his potion.

Just as an aside, when CMs were still relevant, pots and flasks were a lot more expensive and did not use herbs to make.

Just to be clear because it seems people are not getting this, I'm not saying you shouldn't use flasks or have enchants on your gear, I'm saying it's not required to finish CMs, which is what we were discussing.