Havoc is the last spell that needs a buff right now

[striderZA]

It seems that they really want to move away from the old fire-and-forget RoF and spam FnB spells for Destruction, and it looks like they're having a really tough time balancing ember regeneration between single target and multi target. Hopefully we'll see some meaningful changes in 6.1.

[Graeham]

Why was Rain of Fire being used on a single target such a huge problem in Blizzard's eyes, anyway? It allowed us to regenerate embers at a more reasonable and enjoyable pace...and I don't see them stopping any of the other classes from using AoE abilities in their single target fights.

[Deleted]

Why was Rain of Fire being used on a single target such a huge problem in Blizzard's eyes, anyway? It allowed us to regenerate embers at a more reasonable and enjoyable pace...and I don't see them stopping any of the other classes from using AoE abilities in their single target fights.

with the old rof you had so much cleave and ae potential plus a very good movement option, so that affliction and demo were obsolete.

[Gaidax]

It was a PVP buff, so cut the raging. It's effect on PvE will be minimal and it's probably what they have intended.

I am pretty sure Blizzard is not convinced we actually need a buff in PvE, especially since they are planning on improving RoF in some way.

[scrappybristol]

I doubt we'll see any major buffs until Blackrock Foundry drops.

[Stormkhan]

APart from demomlologiust warlock is dead

[Rayaleith]

I doubt they did that for cleave damage. They just wanted to "compensate" for RoF emeber generation. You just use it to cleave incinerates I guess. At least they are looking into it. I want them to make changes and try things. They might be eventually successful with these experiments :P

[Deleted]

I don't know how it looks with mythic or near full hm equipment, but at lower levels of stuff with DS we are so ember starved we can never do more than an extremely partial AOE cycle.
One more or less has to constantly switch between CR & DS to look remotely competitive (some would say to simply do our part).
Conversely I feel we are already quite competitive in cleave scenarii.
I won't complain about a havoc buff but yeah I don't think it's the fix we need.

[Jessicka]

Well I think this ultimately confirms that we're back to the bad old days where it was pretty apparent that the developers seemingly have no idea how players are playing that class, making the wrong fixes for the wrong reasons. They have no idea what they're doing.

[Shiekyerbooty]

Buff mages

I dunno what to say, this is more of a head-scratcher than the RoF nerf, what the hell are these guys doing ? I don't even think they know at this point

[Graeham]

Well I think this ultimately confirms that we're back to the bad old days where it was pretty apparent that the developers seemingly have no idea how players are playing that class, making the wrong fixes for the wrong reasons. They have no idea what they're doing.

It's a shame they got rid of that guy who was really passionate about our class. I can't recall his name but wasn't he pretty much fired for voicing his frustration in regards to how Blizzard approached class balance? If so, it could very well be that spiteful colleagues are seeking to reverse everything he did to make our class unique, smooth and enjoyable.

I don't want to get into conspiracy theory territory, mind you, but that's honestly what it seems like these days. The way the class is being handled and the delay at fixing the glaring issues is just completely unacceptable.

[Deleted]

this stupid spell is the only reason i jump to second on dps for about 10 seconds on fights that have adds....

This spell is shit useless on a single target fight. Gief a butcher fight spawns adds every so often and hay presto locks can top dps for once.

[Deleted]

It's a shame they got rid of that guy who was really passionate about our class. I can't recall his name but wasn't he pretty much fired for voicing his frustration in regards to how Blizzard approached class balance? If so, it could very well be that spiteful colleagues are seeking to reverse everything he did to make our class unique, smooth and enjoyable.

I don't want to get into conspiracy theory territory, mind you, but that's honestly what it seems like these days. The way the class is being handled and the delay at fixing the glaring issues is just completely unacceptable.

Xelnath, he probably crys himself to sleep after looking at these "reasonable changes"

[Deleted]

Well I think this ultimately confirms that we're back to the bad old days where it was pretty apparent that the developers seemingly have no idea how players are playing that class, making the wrong fixes for the wrong reasons. They have no idea what they're doing.

Prettymuch. I maintain that the bizarre and often crappy changes to warlocks aren't out of malice, it just looks like no one has a clue how the class works, as tinfoil hat theory as that sounds - I don't believe for a second that Blizzard's dev team doesn't know the intricacies of the class, but the changes certainly make it look that way.

It's a shame they got rid of that guy who was really passionate about our class. I can't recall his name but wasn't he pretty much fired for voicing his frustration in regards to how Blizzard approached class balance? If so, it could very well be that spiteful colleagues are seeking to reverse everything he did to make our class unique, smooth and enjoyable.

I don't want to get into conspiracy theory territory, mind you, but that's honestly what it seems like these days. The way the class is being handled and the delay at fixing the glaring issues is just completely unacceptable.

Don't delude yourself, Xelnath was far from perfect when it came to designing this class and I'd imagine a lot of what he wrought set the seeds for where we are now. God knows he didn't seem to have ANY clue about the pvp connotations his changes were having, it sounded heavily like him trying to push his original draft of the Cataclysm ability as some sort of pvp fix (when it didn't address the issue at all) was one of the tipping factors in him leaving Blizzard.

Considering this expansion sees Blizzard introduce Cataclysm as an ability, and far better designed than the mess Xelnath looked like he was concocting, I doubt it's some vendetta against him.

The post probably comes across as harsh in relation to Xelnath, he was passionate, loved the class and certainly had good intentions, plus his communication was top notch - which goes a long way towards making even unwanted changes feel better when they actually explain their thought process instead of baffling buffs and nerfs with nothing but contradictory stories about it being targeted at AOE then single target.
But acting like he wasn't as much responsible for the mess the class has become is silly. Lots of the problems we have started to crop up during MOP - where he was most influential, just look at KJC and the rest of that talent tier or the basic building bricks of our specs that are showing issues, from resource generation to mobility and pvp gripes (and it goes without saying that we were an unbalanced mess for most of that expansion). He's as much responsible for those as the current team, if not more.

That and the constant reminder that design is a team effort, Xelnath made it abundantly clear that this was the case when he was active on the forums.

[Deleted]

Looked at the Lock Class change this morning, though "ehh? dafuq!" Logged on my paladin and had some fun for a while.

[Gravityx]

It's like how Windwalkers AoE is overpowered so what do they so? nerf single target.

Exactly. Blizzard has absolutely zero idea what they are doing.

How the fuck was Havoc a problem, if anything fights where you could Havoc SBs all the time (like Bracken) is where Destro already shines. We need help on single target and then movement/aoe on Tectus...how the hell does Havoc help us at all here?

[DeadmanWalking]

So we get a buff that wasn't the buff we wanted but still is a buff and now its time to burn down the house and feed the charred corpses to our dogs? Gotcha, we were much better off when havok wasn't buffed, at least the rhetoric was down to a minimum.

[Hoganshlogan]

I dont think this was meant as a buff. I think they reduced CD on Havoc to make the Glyph feel less mandatory. Doubt it will have very much effect on DPS, if any at all for Destro.

[Novx]

Exactly. Blizzard has absolutely zero idea what they are doing.

How the fuck was Havoc a problem, if anything fights where you could Havoc SBs all the time (like Bracken) is where Destro already shines. We need help on single target and then movement/aoe on Tectus...how the hell does Havoc help us at all here?

I was doing Mythic Tectus as Destro for half of last night...never again. I know Demo is better but I wanted to try Dest out on earlier progression as it is still very much viable until the final phase. The nameplates for the adds weren't even in range 85%+ of the time and I had to actually make target macros for the little and big add to Havoc them.

I dont think this was meant as a buff. I think they reduced CD on Havoc to make the Glyph feel less mandatory. Doubt it will have very much effect on DPS, if any at all for Destro.

Where was the glyph mandatory at all o_O

[DeadmanWalking]

I dont think this was meant as a buff. I think they reduced CD on Havoc to make the Glyph feel less mandatory. Doubt it will have very much effect on DPS, if any at all for Destro.

If its a single target fight like juggernaut then no, it won't have an effect. If the fight involves more than one target then yes it will have an effect, it will mean more chaos bolts and more ember generators for more chaos bolts.