Mythic Butcher : Is tanking him in the water considered an exploit?

[Deleted]

Boss works as intended, Blizzard just fucked up. I dont think this will be fixed, Ra-Den wasn't fixed either.

[LET JIMMY RAID]

Boss works as intended, Blizzard just fucked up. I dont think this will be fixed, Ra-Den wasn't fixed either.

This^. imo this is just an oversight by Blizzard, not an exploit. Same thing with Ra-den: half the fight was left unseen by almost everyone who killed him, because Blizzard overlooked the fact that you could keep him in the easier phase all of p1.

However, we noticed that Butcher didn't reset when pulled to the water on beta, so it's been through testing enough that they had the opportunity to block off the water in response to testing, whereas Ra-den was the secret boss with no beta/PTR testing.

Instead of worrying about pool party strats on Butcher, Blizzard should fix camera angles on Tectus like they promised

[MrExcelion]

Reminds me of that door strat from togc, quite the throwback. Yeah, Blizzard just messed up, guilds hardly get banned these days

[Xargoth6634]

''Pool strat'' its called phix/bizzno strat

You made an account to post this?

[KaPe]

Boss works as intended, Blizzard just fucked up. I dont think this will be fixed, Ra-Den wasn't fixed either.

Ra-den had limited attempts, so altering the fight would have more reaching consequences than changing Butcher.

[brunnor]

Ra-den had limited attempts, so altering the fight would have more reaching consequences than changing Butcher.

Tons of guilds have got past butcher using the "easier" way too. Fixing it now would hurt a lot of up and coming guild's, like mine, progress. I'll be the first to say we plan to use the water strat. If Blizzard didn't want it in, it would get fixed. It will make an annoying fight a touch less annoying while not blatantly exploiting.

I personally wish this got fixed at the first sight of use by Blizzard but since it didn't it needs to stick it out at least until BrF comes out.

[Jetjaguar]

We thought it would have been fixed by now but we could still do it today, so I can't imagine it getting fixed this week either

[Megabloks]

yea the real exploit is letting the boss do 10m damage to himself

[Stanzilla]

Yeah looks like that hotfix did not really go live, was highly doubtful they'd do it mid progress and over christmas anyway.

[DakonBlackblade]

yea the real exploit is letting the boss do 10m damage to himself

What ? The adds damage the boss ? If so than its definetly not an exploit and Blizz actualy intended ppl to let the adds get to the boss, hence the retarded high DPS check. They might not be counting on ppl tanking him there and letting every add explode on him but they sure counted on ppl letting adds reach him. This is a case of ppl using smart strategy if tanking him in the water wasnt suposed to happen why is it that the boss cna be tanked there ?

Ra-den had limited attempts, so altering the fight would have more reaching consequences than changing Butcher.

And also because the part of the fight nobody ever did was actualy ridiculously broken, that thing was impossible, specialy for the poor tank. Also wasnt an exploit thats how the mechanics worked, one ball reachs him he resets debufs and change stance, if you let 2 balls reach him one after the other he goes back and forth beteween stances and deal a tom of damage to you, Blizz couldve made the damage lethal, they didnt so thats not exploiting anything thats beeing smart and using good strategys.

If we keep complaining whenever a smart strat emerges we should be complaining that ppl just zerg Tectus down, that was never the intended design either, do you realy think Bliz wanted ppl to have 10 Tectus one on top of the other and go with only 2 healers in the fight ?

[Qualia]

What ? The adds damage the boss ? If so than its definetly not an exploit and Blizz actualy intended ppl to let the adds get to the boss, hence the retarded high DPS check. They might not be counting on ppl tanking him there and letting every add explode on him but they sure counted on ppl letting adds reach him. This is a case of ppl using smart strategy if tanking him in the water wasnt suposed to happen why is it that the boss cna be tanked there ?

He probably meant the Deterrence damage reflection "bug" instead of the pool strat.

[Fuhrerbelial]

How is this different than tanking twins to the side instead of in the middle of the room? Both have the effect of mitigating a massive amount of raid damage...

[Raugnaut]

Eh, they hot fixed a Void Reaver bug in TK where a lock could enslave one of the big gan'arg and use one of its spells to nuke down VR. I think they reversed out the kills done that way but you could argue it's a clever use of mechanics - locks could enslave demons, here's a big demon....

Generally, for raids, blizzard will hotfix it whenever you use an outside mob in any way, shape, or form inside the fight for progression, with the most recent example being Gara'jal. As an example, if there was an add that could be dominated using the priest's spell, or an add that warlocks/DKs could control using control undead/enslave demon, and it was a trash mob, blizzard would likely fix it so that you could not MC that mob.

- - - Updated - - -

Just another note- for a large number of bosses, there is always going to be a "best" positioning system due to fight mechanics. Siegecrafter, Klaxxi, Garrosh, hell, even Galakras had a positioning spot that could be considered the best (And in Galakras's case, it would double the damage done to him, making him die significantly faster, not much different from the Butcher). In the case of other bosses, figuring out the best positioning system will lead to higher damage done, due to either minimal movement needed (Garrosh, Klaxxi), or the ability to quickly cleave adds down that would otherwise need to be single-targeted (bombs on Siegecrafter).

[absorbb]

Or maybe this is exactly the way blizzard wanted us to kill the boss. i mean 2nd boss being most demanding boss of the instance - doesn't seem right either.

[Relapses]

Or maybe this is exactly the way blizzard wanted us to kill the boss. i mean 2nd boss being most demanding boss of the instance - doesn't seem right either.

Butcher is optional. He's not the 2nd boss of the instance. Twin Orgon is the only boss you have to kill to get to Ko'ragh/Imperator.

Regardless, if there's a CM saying they intend to hotfix it, then it'll probably be changed at some point. (This remains unsubstantiated until actual proof is provided, but it's not outside the realm of possibility.) Right now it's the holidays so it likely won't get fixed in this lockout (or next), but if it's on the radar then it should -- at the very least -- be acknowledged by a blue some point soon.

[JV Chequer]

Celestalon posted it on the MVP Forums is what I heard.

Not on US MVP Forums at least.

[Slant]

Tanking him in the middle means those adds you don't really see basicly comes from every direction, and you need to dedicate almost your entire ranged pool to soak them before they hit the melee camps (and give them 200K hits + a debuff that makes them get basicly 1 shot by the cleave).
Instead, tanking it this way, forces 90% of the adds to round a corner and walk straight into butcher and explode, with everyone out of harms way. They've got one hunter standing out picking off the few adds that does come from a position where they could do any harm.

Sounds legit and not like an exploit at all. Considering the layout of the room, I could easily make the case that Blizzard anticipated that. If they haven't, they've got a really bad playtesting team. This seems quite obvious in hindsight.

[Raiju]

Sounds legit and not like an exploit at all. Considering the layout of the room, I could easily make the case that Blizzard anticipated that. If they haven't, they've got a really bad playtesting team. This seems quite obvious in hindsight.

This has been a known fact for a few years now

[Dawnrage]

The only exploit on this fight is the hunter deterrence reflect thing.

[Deleted]

The black area from the adds is supposed to damage the boss? I've seen this log (notice the top "dps", and the total damage seems ok, so the boss took that damage) where seems so but in the video of that kill the boss is positioned like everyone else does (in the water, of course)