Do you believe that Activism through disturbing the general public is justified?

[Alvito]

It is a good way to bring attention to your issue. It is a poor way to make people care about it though. As far as it being justified if you infringe on other people's rights to try and change something you are doing it wrong. If it is something like a sit in during the 60s that isn't a big deal, if you block miles of traffic in NYC that causes ripples that ruins many peoples days.

[Torgent]

Sorry, I'm a bit baffled at your complete lack of a logical argument, so I was being pretty condescending.

Your first point, which you just repeated, was that the "action" happened "then and there." So, your comparison to our current example, is that the protests... what? Should have started as soon as the men were killed? As soon as the grand jury decision came down? (oh, they did) This is nonsense, including your arbitrary time requirement premise.

Your second point was that Rosa didn't do it to draw attention to the situation. I'd argue Eric Gardner didn't plan to die to draw attention to the situation either.

And everything about your third point is stupid. Assigning the blame to the bus driver instead of the institution of segregation is pretty laughable.

Holy misreading batman.

I never said she didn't do it to draw attention. I said this didn't draw attention to the issue. The court case did, sitting on the bus did not. That's what we remember her for, but that's not what happened. She was friends with lawyers who took this case to court and fought it. Other people had been arrested in her same town a few weeks prior. She was not the first woman to do this.

And about the time constraint. They aren't protesting the grand jury, they are protesting that black males who are committing crimes are being met with lethal force (warranted or not). So yes, if that's the cause they want to claim to have, they should have protested when it first happened. Some did, and they did so for the right reasons. Others are jumping on board because they want vengeance, not justice.

[starlord]

It is a good way to bring attention to your issue. It is a poor way to make people care about it though. As far as it being justified if you infringe on other people's rights to try and change something you are doing it wrong. If it is something like a sit in during the 60s that isn't a big deal, if you block miles of traffic in NYC that causes ripples that ruins many peoples days.

lets be honest no one ever bat an eye at these issues before. "well thats just how it is, so what?".

and here we are... having a national discussion.

[KievanAquinus]

That wasn't my argument. My argument is that it was done then and there.

Exactly what is your argument? Because your recent posts are just condescending nonsense with no material.

You don't always get to be "there and then". Sometimes, when something horrible happens, no one is really around at the time, or if they are they might not be in a position to say or do something. What, exactly, is the problem with collective action after the fact?

And most of the time, people aren't protesting a single event. Sure, a single or series of events may serve as catalyst, but as someone pointed out above, people are usually protesting a policy, not a person. A policy, or a lack of one. A corruption within the system. A twisting of the public good to serve selfish, ignorant urges.

This is seriously one of the most piss poor attempts at a grievance I've ever heard.

"We're gonna be late for work unless I leave early and take an alternate route!"

"Our children will have to stay at Day Care an extra 25 minutes!"

"I never liked these people to begin with and now I have a mole hill I can turn into a mountain!"

[Cthulhu 2020]

Depends on what it is about and how it's done.

Is it something I agree with and doesn't inconvenience me? Then yes, I agree with it.

Is it something I disagree with and it inconveniences me? UNACCEPTABLE.

[KievanAquinus]

They aren't protesting the grand jury, they are protesting that black males who are committing crimes are being met with lethal force (warranted or not).

Holy Framing Batman!

[Drsolders]

Is it something I agree with and doesn't inconvenience me? Then yes, I agree with it.

Is it something I disagree with and it inconveniences me? UNACCEPTABLE.

Is it something I agree with and doesn't inconvenience me? Then yes, I agree with it.

Is it something I agree with and it inconveniences me? UNACCEPTABLE.

Is it something I disagree with and it doesn't inconvenience me? Then yes, I agree with it.

Is it something I disagree with and it inconveniences me? UNACCEPTABLE.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Um I think the purpose of activism is to act. Not form a straight line like its a music festival.

[Itisamuh]

In almost all cases, no.

[KievanAquinus]

Is it something I agree with and doesn't inconvenience me? Then yes, I agree with it.

Is it something I agree with and it inconveniences me? UNACCEPTABLE.

Is it something I disagree with and it doesn't inconvenience me? Then yes, I agree with it.

Is it something I disagree with and it inconveniences me? UNACCEPTABLE.

Lies. No one, and I mean no one, is gonna buy number 2.

[Deleted]

People are having their precious day disturbed by civil action against corruptions which impact on us all?

Holy shit someone call Al Sharpton!

Honestly, your life is incredibly luxurious and smooth compared to 90% of humans on the planet. Being delayed 20 minutes because people protest police brutality, wage gaps, illegal banking policies etc. is not a big deal.

[KievanAquinus]

Honestly, your life is incredibly luxurious and smooth compared to 90% of humans on the planet. Being delayed 20 minutes because people protest police brutality, wage gaps, illegal banking policies etc. is not a big deal.

But think of the children!!! (Who are safely waiting at school, or daycare, or swimming lessons)

[Drsolders]

People are having their precious day disturbed by civil action against corruptions which impact on us all?

Holy shit someone call Al Sharpton!

Honestly, your life is incredibly luxurious and smooth compared to 90% of humans on the planet. Being delayed 20 minutes because people protest police brutality, wage gaps, illegal banking policies etc. is not a big deal.

20 minutes? No, try hours. Try people getting stuck in traffic while giving birth because they wouldn't move. Or people unable to get to work because they won't move. Also just because someone has it worse does not make your problems nonexistent. It would be like saying, they shouldn't protest because other countries have much more corrupt police.

[Torgent]

Holy Framing Batman!

Framing? Of who? Both men recently were proven to have committed crimes, that's not being disputed.

[starlord]

20 minutes? No, try hours. Try people getting stuck in traffic while giving birth because they wouldn't move. Or people unable to get to work because they won't move. Also just because someone has it worse does not make your problems nonexistent. It would be like saying, they shouldn't protest because other countries have much more corrupt police.

what about the people whos sons and brothers and fathers etc are dead or languish in prison because of corruption in the justice system?

[Elegiac]

20 minutes? No, try hours. Try people getting stuck in traffic while giving birth because they wouldn't move.

Occasionally I question how often this really happens. If you're leaving it so late that a traffic jam causes you to give birth in a car....well, that's on you.

Or people unable to get to work because they won't move.

They can just use a day from their legally guaranteed four weeks of vaca....

Oh, wait. America.

Also just because someone has it worse does not make your problems nonexistent. It would be like saying, they shouldn't protest because other countries have much more corrupt police.

In this case, trivial first world problems like being stuck in traffic do not remotely compare to systemic discrimination.

[Doctor Amadeus]

First off not every issue people are upset about requires Activism, but just incase something did, forget your traffic, or your convenience, that is the whole POINT of activism.


Yes, I am sure all the people trying to peacefully enjoy their meals during the sit ins, would probably have felt better if MLK jr and all these trouble makers could just sit where they were told or go some place else, but YEAH, if activism is a MINOR inconvenience to you, well the Activist REALLY are doing a crappy job.



Secondly the reason people are PROTESTING and Active is something YOU should put down your Wendy's and people Magazine for and pay attention, this is YOUR environment, the world you live in, and human beings are unhappy, and as LAZY as Americans can be, if we ACTUALLY decided there was something we NEEDED to get up act protest and be Active about, then it's probably pretty damn important to that segment of the population.



The whole reason we have FREEDOMS and protest to begin with is to access our government, you know to FIX things when they are broken, not just punch a ballot and vote for someone.


Or maybe some people were sleeping in social studies class or history, when we learned that segments of the population ignored and not listened to about issues they FEEL ARE important aren't just going to be brushed off and GO AWAY, they have to be addressed, "Even though that so inconvenient man"

[Drsolders]

Occasionally I question how often this really happens. If you're leaving it so late that a traffic jam causes you to give birth in a car....well, that's on you.

Yes, so the people causing the problem are not at fault. They weren't even allowing emergency personnel through.

They can just use a day from their legally guaranteed four weeks of vaca....

Oh, wait. America.

Cool, yes we aren't as great as other countries. People shouldn't lose their source of income because others have problems.

In this case, trivial first world problems like being stuck in traffic do not remotely compare to systemic discrimination.

Then a few people getting beat/killed by police are nothing. Countries have genocides going on right now, so systemic discrimination means nothing since the government isn't cleansing that population like other countries are doing.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Occasionally I question how often this really happens. If you're leaving it so late that a traffic jam causes you to give birth in a car....well, that's on you.



They can just use a day from their legally guaranteed four weeks of vaca....

Oh, wait. America.



In this case, trivial first world problems like being stuck in traffic do not remotely compare to systemic discrimination.

We might disagree one whatever it is that issue is, or how we see it, but I do agree it's nonsense to hear people actually upset because of other citizens and neighbors in their communities feel that there is a problem and want to be addressed.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, so the people causing the problem are not at fault. They weren't even allowing emergency personnel through.



Cool, yes we aren't as great as other countries. People shouldn't lose their source of income because others have problems.



Then a few people getting beat/killed by police are nothing. Countries have genocides going on right now, so systemic discrimination means nothing since the government isn't cleansing that population like other countries are doing.

Your right to make a living is tied directly to others rights also, we don't live in a vaccum society all about YOU.

And what genocides may or may not be going on has nothing to do with injustice being ignored on whatever scale you feel systemic discrimination is.

[Elegiac]

Yes, so the people causing the problem are not at fault. They weren't even allowing emergency personnel through.

The fault is law enforcement for creating this situation in the first place.

Cool, yes we aren't as great as other countries. People shouldn't lose their source of income because others have problems.

A day's income is totally commensurate to equal treatment under the law.

Then a few people getting beat/killed by police are nothing. Countries have genocides going on right now, so systemic discrimination means nothing since the government isn't cleansing that population like other countries are doing.

Actually, no: I was saying that the protestors' first world problems are vastly more serious than your inconvenience.