CM Lore on twitch: "rogues are not under performing"

[Dualarc]

CM Lore on his twitch stream: "I don't know what logs you guys have been looking at but rogues are not under performing."

Can the internal logs be that much different than what we are seeing on warcraft logs and our own meters? I would love to know what we are missing here.

How is there this much of a discrepancy between how blizzard feels and how the community feels about rogue? I'm curious more than anything.

[Deleted]

Translation:

We are happy with the fact that rogues are not currently top DPS or mid-range DPS because everyone has a turn on being on top and it just so happens, this is not our time.

[Adoxe]

We may be under performing in certain aspects but we're hardly as bad as some people make us out to be. Sounds more like personal L2P problems rather than class balance.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Yup, rogues are more than fine. They do really solid AOE dps when needed, and really solid single target.
Everyone just saw Monks and expected anyone not a monk to be underperforming.
Rogues always are and always will be a solid dps class.

I think the only people who feel they are weak are in PVP for some reason. Which I can't speak on, so I won't even try. In PVE however, they are very good.

[Deleted]

Honestly I don't care being top or even mid, I just want to be competitive and right now my only option for that is to play sub but thats mostly due to the fact my guilds strats are anti-melee

[Deleted]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&fight=14

Im top 5~ on most fights in my guild, tonight on mythic twin ogron i did about 26-30k dps most pulls.

Sure my guild might not be a top guild and thats why i get to little competition (im ex top 20 experienced), but i dont feel like bottom of the pack, maybe mid-pack? :/

- - - Updated - - -

Even if we arent topping the dps, we are a sick class at cheesing/avoiding mechanics and survival in general.

This is 27 pulls on Twin Ogron Mythic: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1719&wipes=1

Dmg taken from Blaze (Fire), something we can survive so fucking easy with the help of sprint/burst of speed/cloak of shadows.

And because we have Cloak of Shadows we can run straight through the fire and just keep dpsing, while other melee has to run around it like fools, wich gives us a dps advantage.

[threads]

We are decent once you have 3-4 weapons and multi-spec.

[Deleted]

You mean once we are able to switch from combat to sub at will?

[AgilityTank]

We are decent once you have 3-4 weapons and multi-spec.

I agree. I don't think the sky is falling but we should do a touch more dmg considering we are a pure dps class. Still the most survivable. 2 cents.

[artem123]

I agree. I don't think the sky is falling but we should do a touch more dmg considering we are a pure dps class. Still the most survivable. 2 cents.

you should have more utility, not dps. Hybrid tax means nothing anymore, except that a pure will bring some type of utility compared to hybrids.

[Rucati]

I think the only people who feel they are weak are in PVP for some reason. Which I can't speak on, so I won't even try. In PVE however, they are very good.

Somehow I doubt that, in PvP Rogues are really strong in the right comps right now. Combat having 8 second Kidneys plus 4 more with Shadow Reflection gives them crazy control and high burst that can't be CC'd with Killing Spree.

[Grawlix]

Somehow I doubt that, in PvP Rogues are really strong in the right comps right now. Combat having 8 second Kidneys plus 4 more with Shadow Reflection gives them crazy control and high burst that can't be CC'd with Killing Spree.

True, but most of us hate playing combat pvp. Getting peeled while stacking insight sucks.

[Aerofluff]

How is there this much of a discrepancy between how blizzard feels and how the community feels about rogue?

I'm actually happy to see that quote about rogue performance.
I raid with two Rogues who whine incessantly about their class, despite the fact that they're usually up there on the logs/meters (never below #4-5, give or take, usually higher). The class seems like it's quite capable of putting out the numbers, if people can play it well.

[intrinsc]

This whole thing feels like that slap on the back/pat on the head you give the fat kid that finishes last on track and field day in elementary school. Hey, bud, you didn't win, but you gave a solid performance where you didn't die! Good job, pal!

[Hamel]

I'll have to disagree with that. Single target dps is hardly competitive compared to other classes...

[AgilityTank]

I'm actually happy to see that quote about rogue performance.
I raid with two Rogues who whine incessantly about their class, despite the fact that they're usually up there on the logs/meters (never below #4-5, give or take, usually higher). The class seems like it's quite capable of putting out the numbers, if people can play it well.

Maybe they're annoyed bc they outplay the people above them on every level and deserve the top spot? There's a monk in our group @ the general top of the meters right now thats a pretty green raider. It's quite hard to believe that he's playing that much better than people who have raided for years. Just a thought

[Maelstrom51]

I'm actually happy to see that quote about rogue performance.
I raid with two Rogues who whine incessantly about their class, despite the fact that they're usually up there on the logs/meters (never below #4-5, give or take, usually higher). The class seems like it's quite capable of putting out the numbers, if people can play it well.

I'm also upper middle pack in my guild. But then I constantly get top 10 ranks while many others above me on the meter struggle to get top 100s.

Anecdotes from individuals aren't that useful. If you want actually useful data you need to sift through warcraftlogs with the right parameters.

[Dextar]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&fight=14

Im top 5~ on most fights in my guild, tonight on mythic twin ogron i did about 26-30k dps most pulls.

Sure my guild might not be a top guild and thats why i get to little competition (im ex top 20 experienced), but i dont feel like bottom of the pack, maybe mid-pack? :/

The problem is, you're comparing yourself to your own guild. If you look at your Kargath kill this week (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done) you are middle of the pack and you've literally got the highest ilvl in the raid group. If you compare your kill to ours (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done) it's a night and day difference.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/6/ - 50th percentile
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/6/#boss=1706 - 50th percentile Butcher

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/6/#dataset=90 90th percentile
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...706&dataset=90 90th percentile Butcher

You also have to remember Blizzard devs said we're too stupid to figure out our own combo point "changes". Buffs would make good rogues look OP when they are playing with people who aren't as skilled. The numbers are there, 90th percentile are some of the best logs out there and rogues have two specs not even being played (or brought in) and sub is at the bottom of the pack.

Anyone who thinks we are "okay" is delusional. Just because we have good survivability doesn't mean our damage should suffer. (it's no different than saying hybrids shouldn't be able to do as much damage as me because they are a hybrid. It's EXACTLY the same thing)

[Coldkil]

CM Lore on his twitch stream: "I don't know what logs you guys have been looking at but rogues are not under performing."

Just saying, last time Blizzard said we were fine we got buffs all over the specs (yes, small buffs wut indeed we got them).

So, i basically don't care anym ore about what they say for rogues, since it's been years of "you're fine" or "haste will fix it". I'll just play my rogue because i like being a rogue and stopped looking at damage meters (i only ask people to tell me how much did i do to compare with SimC and see if i'm doing fine enough).

[Deleted]

Here's another idea for CM Lore, as a very competitive player, I'l just spend my time and top skill on LoL or CSGO, wich has actually some fair and equal balance. I'm pulling 95 percentile parses, then get absolutely demolished on patchwerk type of fights. Single target for Combat is without a doubt incredibly abysmal. Then 60 percentile Ret pally's do juggernaut single target, whilst equaling my cleave/aoe.
If Mister CM Lore doesn't agree... how come when I play tested a Ret pally and DK with a friend, I noticed how much easier everything suddenly got, so I guess obviously playing a Ret pally suddenly I became a skilled ninja, overnight?
I play Combat 10 years, and its never been this out of whack. Borderline overpowered AoE, and completely lackluster single target. How is that a satisfying situation to be in, both cases are unbalanced. My god, I'm starting to miss Ghostcrawler, and that says it all.