Another Class idea: Tinkerer

[Matt0193]

For the demon hunters down with tinkers

Great, more Xllidanx wannabes. Not like Cursed Vision isn't overused as it is.

Unless Blizzard want to take abilities away from other classes to rebuild Demon Hunters as a unique niche, Demon Hunters won't be implemented. And good, because anyone but Night Elf/Blood Elf demon hunters would look incredibly stupid. Almost as stupid as Tauren Paladins or Gnome Priests.

[Styxz]

Nice job OP.

It'd be cool to have a technomancer class, but I'm also thirsty for another caster >.<

[Teriz]

The 'Tinker' seems to be a all-to-common additional class being added to MMO's recently...
Just to name a few...
Aion: Gunslinger (Pistol / Aethercannon)
A Realm Reborn: Machinist (Pistol / Steam-punk shotgun)
Guild Wars 2: Engineer (Pistol, Flamethrower, Grenade Belt, Traps, etc)
Vindictus: Kai (Some weird Machine Automatic Crossbow, I think?)

The FFXIV Machinist is a very cool class concept. It's acrobatic, uses a 2h gun (ranged DPS), and it deploys turrets and other devices to aid party members.



I think players would enjoy a similar concept in WoW. It wouldn't even require Blizzard to develop a new weapon type for it. They would simply use 2h guns, and be able to convert bows/xbows into tech weapons. A tanking or healing spec could be utilized simply by the robots. It would be very cool.

I'm not saying Blizzard should steal FFXIV's concept, but I definitely think they could push it to higher/better levels.

[Traveler Voltin]

omg this again. we dont need more classes. we need more races.

oh you mean more races that get sidelined and never get any lore like gnomes and Worgen?

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While I don't believe the class would be called "Tinker" one big reason would be the expansion of lore tech following the Iron Horde invasion. Blizzard has already stated that our Horde is going to absorb aspects of the Iron Horde moving forward. Frankly, technology is the most open and expansive theme that isn't attached to a class. Blizzard could do a lot with it, and it fits within the game world extremely well. You could literally have a technology class next to any class in the game, and there would be little to no overlap between them.




Possibly. The issue with dragon flights is that they're magic-based, and magic is a very crowded field on the class level.

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Change the class name from Tinker to Technician. Now please explain what the concept revolves around.

And yes, there are Technicians in WoW.

dont forget the fighting in a mech from the WC3 tinker

[Teriz]

oh you mean more races that get sidelined and never get any lore like gnomes and Worgen?

Agreed. I think more races is the last thing the game needs.

dont forget the fighting in a mech from the WC3 tinker

Unfortunately, I think riding mechs/claw packs only work if the class is Goblin/Gnome only. It would be awesome if Blizzard went that route because it would create loads of flavor for the class, but I think if they implemented a tech class, they would go with a more expansive concept in the vein of Machinists from FFXIV.

[Traveler Voltin]

Agreed. I think more races is the last thing the game needs.




Unfortunately, I think riding mechs/claw packs only work if the class is Goblin/Gnome only. It would be awesome if Blizzard went that route because it would create loads of flavor for the class, but I think if they implemented a tech class, they would go with a more expansive concept in the vein of Machinists from FFXIV.

how about Blizzard do their own thing and steal an idea from another game(for once)

[Teriz]

how about Blizzard do their own thing and steal an idea from another game(for once)

That's really the point. Blizzard has a ton of creative freedom with this theme. It's a pretty wide open concept with very little in the way of limitations.

Which is why I always felt it was the strongest candidate for the 12th class.

[Traveler Voltin]

That's really the point. Blizzard has a ton of creative freedom with this theme. It's a pretty wide open concept with very little in the way of limitations.

Which is why I always felt it was the strongest candidate for the 12th class.

i quit trying to say no to tinkers. it does sound fun but i just want demon hunters first.

[Ielenia]

actually, that's a lie.

People made threads apon threads apon pages of arguments when they gave DKs the ability to duelwield (and at the time remove 2-hand) to frost spec. They claimed that wielding a giant runed 2hander was apart of the theme for the class, and giving duelwield to frost spec while removing it's 2 hander part made it just a warrior who uses dark magic. Eventually, they made it so frost could use both, but the point still stands. People complained about DKs and warrior's themes overlapping way to much. It happened.

Funny. I never saw any thread like that.

Ielenia, people pointed out how you switch from "game terms only" or "lore terms only" a lot through out the thread. Every time some one calls you out on it, you ignore it and try to use a different arugment in the post. People have given many examples on how they differ in both game terms and lore terms.

They have given lots and lots of game differences, like, 'one is a class, other a profession', or 'one has abilities, other creates items', or 'one kills mobs, the other sells stuff in the AH' kind of stuff, but when it comes to give them difference lore-wise, they either cannot give them any difference at all, or they basically describe every character under the sun.

[quoteThen when people do post some interesting things, you ignore it. An example is the goblin's ratials. They don't actually have rocket belts or rocket shoes on, but the flavor text of thier racials says they do.[/quote]
So the fact that Blizzard decided to not add the visuals of those on the game matter? For the same logic: how can Night Elves 'shadowmeld' when there's no shadows? How can Engineers shoot rockets from their gloves when there's no visual of a rocket attached to their gloves? How can use rocket boost when there's no rocket propellers attached to their belts? How can engineers transform their cloaks into gliders when you see no mechanism for it on your cloak? How can Hunters summon their pets out of nowhere when they're so far away from the closest stable master?

One's a life choice. One's a side job.

This is a distinction I don't see anywhere in the game, not even hinted or aluded at. And provided you get achievements like 'Master', 'Grandmaster', 'Zen Grandmaster', and so on, give that theory discredit.

One is a class that won't inpact the profession. The profession will still exist and won't be gutted in any way (or at least any more then what WoD did to it).

Can you tell me how a class that, thematically and conceptually, is the exact same as the profession, won't 'impact the profession'?

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Tinkers currently have no definition because they do not exist.

You claim that, except three paragraphs below, you give them a definition? Contradiction much?

However, I can easily come up with a definition that satisfies both a lore separation and a reason for thematic overlap. Take the parallel of Shamans and Mages both using Elemental magic but using different methods to do so. This is literally the parallel between DnD Wizards and Sorcerers.

Nope. Mages use ley-lines to mimic the fire/frost. Shamans get them directly from the elemental planes.

An Engineer builds and creates inventions based on schematics. Engineers draw up schematics before they attempt to create. No matter how whacky the invention, there will always exist a schematic; either for personal use or for others to learn. Engineers are formally trained in the use of Technology. Engineers will openly train others and share knowledge, allowing anyone to take apprenticeships.

A Tinker invents through a mixture of talent, genius and experience. They are 1% inspiration 99% perspiration when it comes to creating inventions. Tinkers do not work off schematics, they are self-taught and all their technology is customized and personalized for their use only. Though often imitated, their technology is irreplicable without the original creator. A Tinker may become an Engineer if they choose to learn how to read and use schematics; however they would not make schematics for their most personalized work.

Didn't you state, in your very first line in this post, that 'Tinkers have no definition'? Look at you, giving them a definition. So cute~

Also, do you have any example of this '1% inspiration, 99% perspiration, don't use schematics' kind of thing in the game? And engineer is not about schematics, since you recall engineers can invent. Not to mention you're trying to make Tinker look like super-beings, with super-advanced intelligence, which goes against WoW's idea that your hero starts as your average Joe/Jane.

This definition would satisfy a differentiation in lore

No, it doesn't.

As for where Tinkers get all their materials if they start piss-poor? That's all suspension of disbelief; the same way hunters have a limitless supply of arrows and traps or how Monks have limitless kegs of brew with them at all times.

So, because we suspend our disbelief that some classes can use item that cost a little bit of gold and silver without having to track their supply, we should do the same to a class whose entire gear costs much more than the average Joe/Jane can afford?

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Considering such evidence doesn't exist, it is indeed very easy to ignore.

Ignoring something does not make it go away. Ignoring that a door is closed does not allow you to walk through it.

Just like Enchanting and Mages?

Nope, because those two are different schools of magic. The same cannot be said on engineering.

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The FFXIV Machinist is a very cool class concept. It's acrobatic, uses a 2h gun (ranged DPS), and it deploys turrets and other devices to aid party members.

Please, point us where in the FFXIV game do you have an Engineer crafting profession in that game. Actually, I'll save you the trouble. There is none.

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That's really the point. Blizzard has a ton of creative freedom with this theme. It's a pretty wide open concept with very little in the way of limitations.

It's not. All of its concept and theme is fully folded into the Engineering feature.

[ZazuuPriest]

this again .. welcome to 2010 /thread

[Teriz]

Please, point us where in the FFXIV game do you have an Engineer crafting profession in that game. Actually, I'll save you the trouble. There is none.

I do believe the point is that if said class concept was imported into WoW, it would have very little overlap with the profession, since classes tend to not overlap with professions even when they share the same theme.

It's not. All of its concept and theme is fully folded into the Engineering feature.

A tech classes' concept would be to perform class roles utilizing technology. Its theme would be a class that utilizes technology. Neither of those are folded into the Engineering profession, because Engineering isn't a class.

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i quit trying to say no to tinkers. it does sound fun but i just want demon hunters first.

We'll see soon enough.

[Traveler Voltin]

We'll see soon enough.

maybe. legion expansion demon hunters, if we are in another expansion with a ton of tech maybe tinkers(if blizzard deems them no longer silly)

[Packing an i5]

Not an original idea and I would prefer it to just be called the Engineer Class.

[Ielenia]

I do believe the point is that if said class concept was imported into WoW, it would have very little overlap with the profession, since classes tend to not overlap with professions even when they share the same theme.

Gee. A character that makes bombs, rockets, and all sorts of machines! But where did I see that before... oh yeah! Engineering.

A tech classes' concept would be to perform class roles utilizing technology. Its theme would be a class that utilizes technology. Neither of those are folded into the Engineering profession, because Engineering isn't a class.

Yeahyeahyeah. 'Gameplay terms to justify two features with the exact same concept and theme', yada-yada....

EDIT: Seeing people pulling out those examples from other games that have tech-classes, but no tech crafting system, really amuses me.

[Traveler Voltin]

Not an original idea and I would prefer it to just be called the Engineer Class.

nothing is ever original.

[Teriz]

Gee. A character that makes bombs, rockets, and all sorts of machines! But where did I see that before... oh yeah! Engineering.

Who said anything about making bombs and rockets?

Additionally, you can't produce mechanical pets that can aid you in battle via Engineering.

Yeahyeahyeah. 'Gameplay terms to justify two features with the exact same concept and theme', yada-yada....

Like Monks and alchemy.

[Thimagryn]

Didn't you state, in your very first line in this post, that 'Tinkers have no definition'? Look at you, giving them a definition. So cute~

Well Teriz is here, so I'm no longer needed to continue playing your games. Have fun!

[diamondjim]

Well Teriz is here, so I'm no longer needed to continue playing your games. Have fun!

Pretty sure he was here since page 1 on alt accounts.

[Ielenia]

Who said anything about making bombs and rockets?

Are you going to say the tech class doesn't use tech?

Additionally, you can't produce mechanical pets that can aid you in battle via Engineering.

Except all the pets Engineering can make, right?

Like Monks and alchemy.

Now you just lost all reason if you think the two are related. What next? Are you going to say mages and rogues are the same?

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Well Teriz is here, so I'm no longer needed to continue playing your games. Have fun!

Yeah. I was the one 'playing games' by denying my definitions of 'tinker' because 'they don't have definitions', but you had no problems giving them your own definition. No, wait, that was you.

[Traveler Voltin]

Are you going to say the tech class doesn't use tech?


Except all the pets Engineering can make, right?


Now you just lost all reason if you think the two are related. What next? Are you going to say mages and rogues are the same?

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Yeah. I was the one 'playing games' by denying my definitions of 'tinker' because 'they don't have definitions', but you had no problems giving them your own definition. No, wait, that was you.

what pets can engineers make that aid them in battle?
battle pets/companion pets dont count btw