How are Ferals doing compared to everyone else?

[teddabear]

I see absolutely no reason that Thrash shouldn't cost CPs or share a CD with Tiger's Fury and spread existing DoTs to everything it hits (Moonfire included for LI.)

That is an interesting concept. I don't know if the Thrash mechanic is the way to go but something spreading Moonfire for LI is a nice idea.

[TheLOOGE]

Shadow Priests are in a very similar situation to Ferals from ranged.

But they're not. Spriests can take advantage of Twist of Fate/Shadow Word Death on other adds that are low hp to help boost their single target damage for example. So while yeah, on the surface both classes have shitty AE and seem to be in similar situations, Spriests manage to work around their AE deficiency to make significant single target damage gains. Also, because Spriests have no real offensive cds, they have some of the best on-demand burst damage in the game. Again, something that Feral lacks as well.

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For what it's worth, it's important to note that the 2 pc tier does nothing to fix our existing issues. It just bolsters areas where we were strong to begin with. And by bolster, I just mean it keeps us on pace with other classes that shine in those kinds of encounters as well. We still suck on AE, we're still one of the worst (I'd argue THE worst) class at swapping to high priority/low-medium hp targets.

And to finally lay this "bring Feral we're super good at single target" used car salesman-esque argument to bed, take a look at this:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...691&dataset=95

So if you look at the viable raiding specs for each class, you can see pretty much everyone is tightly clumped, with Arcane mages (high, ST niche) and Windwalker Monks (low, cleave/aoe is their niche) as outliers. This is respectable. Most classes are within 5-7% of one another or less.

Even two-target cleave where Ferals tend to "shine" as well:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...693&dataset=95

Again we see a pretty close race among all of the viable raiding classes/specs.

Now for the pain:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...692&dataset=95
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...690&dataset=95
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...694&dataset=95

Not only are Ferals low -- they're way, WAY low. Call it padding, paint it whatever shade you want, the bottom line is... our damage toolkit lacks so much versatility. We're a one-trick pony that isn't really even a trick. You could stick ANYONE single target and they would do practically the same as we do, as proven in the first link, just tell them not to "pad" or cleave. Boom. Done. "Oh snap, we're behind on adds! Quick Warriors, swap to ae/cleave! Quick Spriests, use your on-demand burst damage to burn this high priority add down! Quick Ferals.... uh... stay... on the boss." Boomkins have it especially good on Blast Furnace for example, because with so many adds in this encounter, they can basically have perpetual Starfall going and lose virtually nothing single target, because they're gaining Shooting Stars procs faster than they can spend them. So yeah, Balance druids can and DO pad on Blast Furnace. And it's fine because as I said, they stand to gain a ton of single target damage from it.

Ferals are in a very, very bad spot. Arguably the worst spot we've seen since T11 -- not hyperbole. Fact. We shine on a handful of fights but in the grand scheme of things, we don't bring nearly enough to the table to warrant a guaranteed raid spot. We HAVE to be capable of doing more than just boss damage because everyone else can do that too.

Or simply give us a clear edge on single target again. Replace Arcane Mages with us and I'd be perfectly content with that.

[aggixx]

Ok things aren't as simple as i thought.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/d4xyCF9QH62pGWkz#type=damage-done&fight=15&source=35&pins=2%24Separate%24%23244F4B%24auras|damage%24-1%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%2476865.0.0.Boss%24true%241079^0%24Separate%24%23909049%2 4damage%240%240.0.0.Any%24115043193.0.0.Druid%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%241079&by=source& ability=1079&target=130

rip damage on iron crusher --- 0 according to logs. So either rip tics on ironcrusher were counted toward dramac. in which case my point stands or log parsing is severely messed up.

As it stands logs show 110 ticks with 18 casts on all enemies. and 110 tics with 8 casts on beastlord. One of these numbers are wrong.

The active pin filters ticks (which is why you see 0 damage on the other targets) but doesn't filter casts. Total I had 18 casts and 232 ticks.

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And to finally lay this "bring Feral we're super good at single target" used car salesman-esque argument to bed, take a look at this:

Not only are Ferals low -- they're way, WAY low.

Its safe to say that those statistics do not fairly reflect the power of our AoE since its simply so bad that many parses aren't going to bother. The inverse is also true that our single target probably isn't as good as the parses would indicate if not for the fact that parses have a tendency to tunnel the boss because that's often the best thing to do to contribute.

[teddabear]

The inverse is also true that our single target probably isn't as good as the parses would indicate if not for the fact that parses have a tendency to tunnel the boss because that's often the best thing to do to contribute.

The problem is Blizzard tends to make Adds such a priority that killing them is the single biggest aspect of the fight.

I can't count how many times I have seen Add damage posted in raid because the Adds aren't dying fast enough and it's wiping the raid.

[exochaft]

The problem is Blizzard tends to make Adds such a priority that killing them is the single biggest aspect of the fight.

I can't count how many times I have seen Add damage posted in raid because the Adds aren't dying fast enough and it's wiping the raid.

High-priority adds come up as a common theme in many WoD boss fights, and it amplifies that there are a lot of classes/specs that are really good at both single-target and AoE/cleave potential. It's not uncommon to look at boss damage and high-priority adds damage to see the same people doing well at both tasks while still dwarfing Ferals. While Feral probably needs some loving in both departments, other classes/specs may need to come down quite a bit as being too good at everything is not balanced.