Moonkins flying under the radar?

[Deleted]

.. (buff healing touch so boomies have to cast to be immortal)...

Directly buffing ferals, a lot. Your changes make so little sense.

Just fixing % heals will fix most 2v2 healing issues which is just an aside as 3v3 is the balanced arena and boomkins are nothing in 3s.

[Madus]

The instant casts are stupid considdering they want all casters to cast

Pls dont pull facts from your ass. Blizzard clearly dont wanna casters cast when there is 100% melee uptime with 3 interupts/stuns per melee.

[Deleted]

Bad thread is bad.

OP next time you make a thread to complain about something, at least put in some facts or something.
All we can guess based on your post is that you've been killed by a druid in PvP and now want them to get nerfed.

[zoomgpally]

Have you ever heard of hunters and their mechanics? Blizzard has their own vision of each of the ranged specs, and it doesn't have to comport to yours. Certainly they have tried a number of things over the years, and their vision of ranged will continue to evolve, and they will continue to try out new mechanics.

As to OP -- Not really if the below from the front page of AJ is any indication. The OP cites self heals as the only justification they might be too stronk. What about DKs, rets--which both have much higher representation at 2400+.

2400 representation percentages:

RestoDruid: 13.06
RestoSham: 9.7
CombatRogue: 8.21
AffLock: 8.21
ArmsWarr: 7.46
HolyPal: 5.97
RetPal: 5.97
FeralDruid: 5.22
FrostDK: 4.85
SVHunter: 4.48
FrostMage: 4.48
MWMonk: 4.48
ShadowPriest: 4.48
BMHunter: 3.73
DiscPriest: 2.24
FuryWarr: 1.87
UHDK: 1.49
SubRogue: 1.12
MMHunter: 0.75
WWMonk: 0.75
EnhSham: 0.75
BalanceDruid: 0.37
HolyPriest: 0.37
BloodDK: 0
GuardianDruid: 0
ArcaneMage: 0
FireMage: 0
BMMonk: 0
ProtPal: 0
AssRogue: 0
EleSham: 0
DemoLock: 0
DestroLock: 0
ProtWarr: 0

Judging by those numbers: It is not balance being weak, it is their ability to respec resto which is the best healer. Any player at high rating is going to be skilled enough to be able to learn another spec.

[Deleted]

Judging by those numbers: It is not balance being weak, it is their ability to respec resto which is the best healer. Any player at high rating is going to be skilled enough to be able to learn another spec.

Yes, good players can probably play different specs. But just look at the RBG numbers. Moonkins have 14%+ representation there, which indicates that caster Druids might switch to Moonkin for RBG and to Resto for 3v3. However, if Moonkin was really good in 3v3, why would they switch? Moonkin is probably not as bad as 0.37% representation, but not really overpowered. If it was OP, it would be used more often in 3s considering the fact that we know from RBG representation that there are quite a few Druids who are willing to play the spec in PvP.

I also think that this thread is heavily based on 1v1 or 2v2, which is not where the balance is. Moonkins only have those instants when you attack them. Without them they have pretty high casting times, especially on Starfire which is their bigger hitter and are easily shut down by CC (except for Poly) and LoSing. Its really mostly in 1v1 or in 2v2 with a pretty tanky partner (hello Brewmaster Monk) that their instants are an annoying mechanic.

But that said: Hard casting in general is TOTALLY ANNOYING in WoD because of all the melee trains and interrupts with no immunities, along with the fact that you have to stand still and can be LoS'ed during the cast time. I really think that casters should cast, but first Blizzard has to do something about the plethora of melee interrupts (and I think Holinka has already given a hint that they will do something about that).

[Rivellana]

I'd agree they're flying under the radar, but the claim of their healing being OP is just ridiculous. I've been playing boomkin for awhile and it's near impossible to get a hard casted healing touch off with the number of melee running around these days. Ferals, rets, hell...even hunters...all have more self healing than the boomkin while being interrupted much less. Yeah, they can do a ton of damage, but they're not the only class that can do a ton of damage.

I've been playing my disc priest as well too lately and I've got to agree with the guy above me who said hard casting anything is a huge problem right now. There are melee trains everywhere, it seems like every dps class has a plethora of interrupts, and to top it all off, there's no diminishing return on the amount of time you're interrupted. It's worse than stuns...five seconds every single time before you can even attempt to cast again and by then you're either dead or interrupted again. Blizzard said they wanted casters to cast but based on this evidence, they apparently don't.

A little sad when you can only get say, 5 seconds of interrupt immunity from using a 1.5 minute cd in order to even attempt to get a cast off (during which you can still be stunned or cc'd) but interrupts from every class have only 15 to 30 second cds.

[warlockiii]

Kind of amusing all of the discussion that a silly thread spawned. OP basically said boomies self heal--QQ. At the end of the day, they aren't OP in arenas. For RBGs, we already know Blizzard is watching them, given they nerfed Starfall in PvP once already--but they have been ok with Balance healing for a long time now.

[HardlyWaken]

I'd agree they're flying under the radar, but the claim of their healing being OP is just ridiculous. I've been playing boomkin for awhile and it's near impossible to get a hard casted healing touch off with the number of melee running around these days. Ferals, rets, hell...even hunters...all have more self healing than the boomkin while being interrupted much less. Yeah, they can do a ton of damage, but they're not the only class that can do a ton of damage.

I've been playing my disc priest as well too lately and I've got to agree with the guy above me who said hard casting anything is a huge problem right now. There are melee trains everywhere, it seems like every dps class has a plethora of interrupts, and to top it all off, there's no diminishing return on the amount of time you're interrupted. It's worse than stuns...five seconds every single time before you can even attempt to cast again and by then you're either dead or interrupted again. Blizzard said they wanted casters to cast but based on this evidence, they apparently don't.

A little sad when you can only get say, 5 seconds of interrupt immunity from using a 1.5 minute cd in order to even attempt to get a cast off (during which you can still be stunned or cc'd) but interrupts from every class have only 15 to 30 second cds.

Luckily they're supposedly looking into lockouts. But once they do, i think empowered moonkin form needs to be looked at for sure. And yeah their healing isnt that great, its easily stopped for the most part, but with Ysera+Rejuv your "passive" healing should be pretty close to on par with hunter so I'm not sure what you mean there. Spirit bond is 2% per 2. Ysera is 4% per 5 + rejuv and shape shift heals 5% per 5 if you glyph it. That's pretty hefty. Plus with the speed many specs attack you get instant shots quite a lot and they're not small instants either like hunters which tend to add up, Starfire instants right after an instant starsurge can be quite deadly.

[Keyboard Champion]

Luckily they're supposedly looking into lockouts. But once they do, i think empowered moonkin form needs to be looked at for sure. And yeah their healing isnt that great, its easily stopped for the most part, but with Ysera+Rejuv your "passive" healing should be pretty close to on par with hunter so I'm not sure what you mean there. Spirit bond is 2% per 2. Ysera is 4% per 5 + rejuv and shape shift heals 5% per 5 if you glyph it. That's pretty hefty. Plus with the speed many specs attack you get instant shots quite a lot and they're not small instants either like hunters which tend to add up, Starfire instants right after an instant starsurge can be quite deadly.

Interesting. Was just thinking today that moonkins are extremely similar to hunters, almost in the same way ferals are similar to rogues.

Think about it.
Better heals. Passive heal that both classes have but boomkins also have rejuv and healing touch.
Better stealth. Hunter stealth is crap, slow and needs to be glyphed for and also has a cd. Moonkin stealth is faceroll, just switch to cat.
Gap closers are kinda the same. Boomkin is on a 30 sec cd in the form of Displacer Beast and also has Dash. Plus they remove roots and slows on shifting. The major difference is that you can't stop a moonkin who wants to run but you can stop a hunter. Moonkin has like "burst" escapes while hunters have "sustained" escapes.
Both are ranged.
Better free cast damage. Sorry, in a 1v1 in an open range a boomkin will outdps a hunter, hands down.
Better instants. Boomkin instants really hurt unlike hunter instants.

[Reveries1]

Not really seeing the self healing problem for boomkins. As a boomkin you get swapped to and what do you have? Barkskin?

[HardlyWaken]

Not really seeing the self healing problem for boomkins. As a boomkin you get swapped to and what do you have? Barkskin?

4% per 5 seconds, rejuv and 5% per 5 seconds from a swap is better self healing than most classes have access. Everyone has the potential of getting trained down hard, though. That's nothing new.

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Interesting. Was just thinking today that moonkins are extremely similar to hunters, almost in the same way ferals are similar to rogues.

Think about it.
Better heals. Passive heal that both classes have but boomkins also have rejuv and healing touch.
Better stealth. Hunter stealth is crap, slow and needs to be glyphed for and also has a cd. Moonkin stealth is faceroll, just switch to cat.
Gap closers are kinda the same. Boomkin is on a 30 sec cd in the form of Displacer Beast and also has Dash. Plus they remove roots and slows on shifting. The major difference is that you can't stop a moonkin who wants to run but you can stop a hunter. Moonkin has like "burst" escapes while hunters have "sustained" escapes.
Both are ranged.
Better free cast damage. Sorry, in a 1v1 in an open range a boomkin will outdps a hunter, hands down.
Better instants. Boomkin instants really hurt unlike hunter instants.

Hunter stealth pisses me off. This game is WAY too filled with DOTs for it to be useful and we have too many "mandatory" or very necessary glyphs to take, it's not really worth taking the stealth camo glyph. And in combat its not really possible to ever use. you practically NEVER have no DoTs on you. If it lasted through DOTs it'd actually be an amazing defensive tool, but alas... It needs some break-protection like Vanish got eventually. It suffers old-school vanish problems really bad. If it didn't break on the first flick though it'd be sooooooooo good with the improved Camo perk.

[partshark]

As a boomkin I scoff at all you wimpy non druids.

OT: Don't blame us. We posted 20 pages worth of arguments against boomkin PvP superiority in beta.

[HardlyWaken]

As a boomkin I scoff at all you wimpy non druids.

OT: Don't blame us. We posted 20 pages worth of arguments against boomkin PvP superiority in beta.

At least you're honest.

[Deleted]

Donno, I must be the worst owl on the planet. I can't survive 10 seconds against a fury warrior as an owl but am near unkillable as a heal druid. I'm not good at running away as my main is warrior but I get the fairyfire spam into the displacement beast around the corner to block grips and charges. My damage is abhorrent and I hardly ever get instants unless trained so hard that due to GCD I can't get enough dmg out to kill a warrior (arguably the easiest melee to kill for casters who can survive due to lack of selfhealing).
So tell me, how are owls so damn OP that I don't really fear them as warrior?

[Hand Banana]

Donno, I must be the worst owl on the planet. I can't survive 10 seconds against a fury warrior as an owl but am near unkillable as a heal druid. I'm not good at running away as my main is warrior but I get the fairyfire spam into the displacement beast around the corner to block grips and charges. My damage is abhorrent and I hardly ever get instants unless trained so hard that due to GCD I can't get enough dmg out to kill a warrior (arguably the easiest melee to kill for casters who can survive due to lack of selfhealing).
So tell me, how are owls so damn OP that I don't really fear them as warrior?

Root the warrior and walk away? Force charge or leap with that then displacer. Kiting anything (except the unkitable feral) as a boomkin should be cakewalk easy if you spec treants.

[Madus]

Interesting. Was just thinking today that moonkins are extremely similar to hunters, almost in the same way ferals are similar to rogues.

Think about it.
Better heals. Passive heal that both classes have but boomkins also have rejuv and healing touch.
Better stealth. Hunter stealth is crap, slow and needs to be glyphed for and also has a cd. Moonkin stealth is faceroll, just switch to cat.
Gap closers are kinda the same. Boomkin is on a 30 sec cd in the form of Displacer Beast and also has Dash. Plus they remove roots and slows on shifting. The major difference is that you can't stop a moonkin who wants to run but you can stop a hunter. Moonkin has like "burst" escapes while hunters have "sustained" escapes.
Both are ranged.
Better free cast damage. Sorry, in a 1v1 in an open range a boomkin will outdps a hunter, hands down.
Better instants. Boomkin instants really hurt unlike hunter instants.

GJ on ignoring most OP thing on hunter what is his CC arsenal and making him top tier class in pvp right now, well done.

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Force charge or leap with that then displacer. Kiting anything (except the unkitable feral) as a boomkin should be cakewalk easy if you spec treants.

Yea force charge number 1 with displacer and enjoy charge 2 in face. And after your priest pull you then enjoy heroic jump. True cakewalk easy.

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Not really seeing the self healing problem for boomkins. As a boomkin you get swapped to and what do you have? Barkskin?

Problem is that when you go as moonkin in 2v2 on 1500 rating you can basically delete people here in cooldowns, something what is not working in 3v3 or higher rating at all. Thats why moonkins have 1% representation what is doubled representation of Elem shaman.

[Deleted]

Apparently it's fine for a caster class to fire off instant casts 24/7 when he's being hit as well as heal itself for 9% of its hp every 5 seconds. But hey, who am I?

*4% of HP every 5 seconds.

Also Empowered Moonkin has a 15% chance to proc.

[Deleted]

GJ on ignoring most OP thing on hunter what is his CC arsenal and making him top tier class in pvp right now, well done.

Exactly this: Hunters are quite a bit stronger than Moonkins in PvP right now because of their CC arsenal, especially 12 sec instant freezing trap. Hunters also have better defensive CDs (2x Deterrence will make the enemy switch 2 times while they will just damage through Barkskin for Moonkins) and better mobility (30% speed from aspect, freedom every 45 seconds, permanent snare from auto shots).

On top of that Hunters have better sustained damage, because they don't have to rely on instant procs. Those instants deal good burst damage but low sustained damage. DoT damage is also higher on Hunters compared to Moonkins. That said: In 1v1 a Moonkin will probably win more often, just because of the Cyclone -> 3x Healing Touch combo, but this combo is totally unusable in "real" PvP.

I play both specs currently (Hunter and Boomie) and I'm doing way better on my hunter in arenas. In BGs it's a different story though. Boomkins are still really strong there.

[Bluey111]

say what you want, but a good boomie is insanely hard to kill with a good healer
The instant casts are stupid considdering they want all casters to cast, and honestly they need to nerf rejuv across the board
Ferals just rejuv and use procs to heal
Boomies spam rejuv and shapemender/yseera
And restos just double rejuv afk

Fix yseera, remove shapemender, and nerf rejuv by a fuckton (buff healing touch so boomies have to cast to be immortal)

A good anything is insanely hard to kill with a good healer

[Deleted]

What is this madness? Chickens can't fly