Help with Sub logs

[Deleted]

Just about getting used to sub now and raided again last night and finding my dps is a lot more consistent, had a look through logs but only in 58th percentile
Just wondering if people can look through my butcher log and see where I'm going wrong https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...lity&source=11

[PessimiStick]

You missed a use of Dance, you're not using Subterfuge, last Dance wasn't matched with Reflection.

You Ambushed 24 times in a 4:30 fight, compared to 88 Backstabs. My last log had 22 Ambushes in 3:17 and only 50 Backstabs. This is related to Subterfuge.

You're not using Rupture with SR active.

There may be other things, but I'm not the best at reading Sub logs since I've only been playing the spec for a couple weeks.

Edit: And percentile wise, your iLvl is holding you back. You're 14 iLvl behind me, and I'm U.S. (EU is higher by a tad usually).

[noralya]

From what I remember, Subterfuge isn't actually the best talent to have, and Shadow Focus is. The reduced cost of Ambush this early in the expansion and with that little gear is better than the minor increase in FW uptime for which you most likely will be energy starved if you just Ambushed*2.

[PessimiStick]

From what I remember, Subterfuge isn't actually the best talent to have, and Shadow Focus is. The reduced cost of Ambush this early in the expansion and with that little gear is better than the minor increase in FW uptime for which you most likely will be energy starved if you just Ambushed*2.

If MoS didn't exist, you would be correct. He has ~12.5% uptime on MoS, I had 25%. That's a large difference in overall damage.

[xquizite]

As long as you can get improved vanish(glyph) to last longer then your subterfuge then shadowfocus will always be second. You get 2 back to back subterfuges on each vanish you need to get 2-3 ambushes off in this time to make the choices a dps increase. If you are having trouble doing that then yes shadowfocus is better for you.

Your opener needs work, there are a few ways to do it but you want to get seng veins bonus on pull (subterfuge can do a hemo - ambush - ambush - rupture).

You want to ambush with findweakness up at all times (when able), you also want maximum find weakness and MoS (means getting ambushes in last second to extend these)

Vanish and dance have to be used properly, you want to get as many ambushes / evis in during this time as possible and saving one ambush for the last second to extend find weakness. This means having a strong SnD / Rupture up prior to using Dance. Also you need to (with subterfuge) have 120 energy when you vanish to get 2x ambushes off.

Keeping these in mind you need to get "lucky" or plan proper moments of burst (trinkets or stationary boss) and you cant wait more then ~5 seconds before dancing every time its up.

Hope his helps a bit.

[DakonBlackblade]

Lets face it the Subterfuge/Focus diference is small, if he has something holding him back its not a glyph. And plz ppl refrain to give ppl strugling with a spec advices to make the rotation harder ? Go for those after the guy mastered the rotation and wants to improve even further.

[xquizite]

Lets face it the Subterfuge/Focus diference is small, if he has something holding him back its not a glyph. And plz ppl refrain to give ppl strugling with a spec advices to make the rotation harder ? Go for those after the guy mastered the rotation and wants to improve even further.

He is competitive enough to know that hes doing something right but isn't parsing in the top percentile for his ilvl. Which is why he would come here and ask for help.

If you just play a spec you may parse at 50%. I didn't go find him and criticize him in a pug group, he came here for help. The fact is If you or the OP don't want a complex answer as to how to get high numbers as sub.. then don't play a spec that requires a complex rotation to maximize dps.


If you want the cookie cutter read the ingame description, go to icyveins or play for fun.

I was asked to review a log and explain how to perform better, I answered appropriately.

[DakonBlackblade]

He is competitive enough to know that hes doing something right but isn't parsing in the top percentile for his ilvl. Which is why he would come here and ask for help.

If you just play a spec you may parse at 50%. I didn't go find him and criticize him in a pug group, he came here for help. The fact is If you or the OP don't want a complex answer as to how to get high numbers as sub.. then don't play a spec that requires a complex rotation to maximize dps.


If you want the cookie cutter read the ingame description, go to icyveins or play for fun.

I was asked to review a log and explain how to perform better, I answered appropriately.

The advice to make things harder for yourself should always come with the warning. Is it so dificult to tell someone theres two sides to the coin instead of going "get Subterfuge, youre doing it wrong ?". There are rogues parseeing in the top percentiles with Focus.

[xquizite]

The advice to make things harder for yourself should always come with the warning. Is it so dificult to tell someone theres two sides to the coin instead of going "get Subterfuge, youre doing it wrong ?". There are rogues parseeing in the top percentiles with Focus.

Parsing with sub-optimal builds is very common since there are too many variables in the raid to always parse..

You don't come to a forum asking for ways to improve with a disclaimer of "without making it harder". This style of play is pretty simple to me since I play this way, he may have an easy time grasping it.

If it's too hard for you, then ignore my input and go play your rogue the way you want to, and you may get lucky and get a top parse with a sub-optimal build and play style.. and I will grats you for it.

[DakonBlackblade]

Parsing with sub-optimal builds is very common since there are too many variables in the raid to always parse..

You don't come to a forum asking for ways to improve with a disclaimer of "without making it harder". This style of play is pretty simple to me since I play this way, he may have an easy time grasping it.

If it's too hard for you, then ignore my input and go play your rogue the way you want to, and you may get lucky and get a top parse with a sub-optimal build and play style.. and I will grats you for it.

Whatever man its pointless to discuss with ppl that only see the best theoretical build as the best pratical build for anyone in whichever scenario.

[xquizite]

Whatever man its pointless to discuss with ppl that only see the best theoretical build as the best pratical build for anyone in whichever scenario.

I link my char and parse logs for my guild. You can look me up anytime and judge my practical application of theorycrafting.

Everything I see you post is troll worthy or just feelings with no substance or proof so don't you dare discredit me.

[Soisoisoi]

The advice to make things harder for yourself should always come with the warning.

Normally I'd agree, but;
1) We're talking about Sub here. If the OP didn't want to play something harder than they think they could handle they'd probably be playing Assassination.
2) The OP is asking for help to improve his DPS into a higher percentile; I assume he'll be okay with having to work a little harder to push the DPS higher.

[DakonBlackblade]

I link my char and parse logs for my guild. You can look me up anytime and judge my practical application of theorycrafting.

Everything I see you post is troll worthy or just feelings with no substance or proof so don't you dare discredit me.

Your logs still dont prove 1 thing is best for everyone in every scenario. Its a sample size of 1

[Deleted]

People people, I'm not brain dead I do not want to play a 3 button class of mut or combat. I don't care if the rotation is harder I'm just wondering what I'm doing wrong, compared to SimC I can hit within 1k of what I should be doing on pull, just wondering if can spit anything wrong in rotation

[Soisoisoi]

People people, I'm not brain dead I do not want to play a 3 button class of mut or combat. I don't care if the rotation is harder I'm just wondering what I'm doing wrong [...]

This is one of those times I want a like/upvote button on this forum.

[DakonBlackblade]

People people, I'm not brain dead I do not want to play a 3 button class of mut or combat. I don't care if the rotation is harder I'm just wondering what I'm doing wrong, compared to SimC I can hit within 1k of what I should be doing on pull, just wondering if can spit anything wrong in rotation

Not saying you are, Im saying ppl give advices in absolutes, when youre giving advice you dont know how ppl will act on that so you should consider the whole spectrum of possibilitys. But somehow that got the fury of mister xquizite.

[xquizite]

Not saying you are, Im saying ppl give advices in absolutes, when youre giving advice you dont know how ppl will act on that so you shoudl consider the whole spectrum of possibilitys. But somehow that got the fury of mister xquizite.

Everything I have said is useful and valid and is a description of what your goals are and all vary in practical use. You have offered dissenting opinions without giving any constructive options to counter what I wrote.

I'm angry that you have taken up half a thread arguing that I'm wrong without adding anything to the debate besides your feelings which are invalid in any raiding environment.

Your the definition of a troll. Trying to incite emotional responses without actually contributing to the topic.

[Deleted]

As long as you can get improved vanish(glyph) to last longer then your subterfuge then shadowfocus will always be second. You get 2 back to back subterfuges on each vanish you need to get 2-3 ambushes off in this time to make the choices a dps increase. If you are having trouble doing that then yes shadowfocus is better for you.

Your opener needs work, there are a few ways to do it but you want to get seng veins bonus on pull (subterfuge can do a hemo - ambush - ambush - rupture).

You want to ambush with findweakness up at all times (when able), you also want maximum find weakness and MoS (means getting ambushes in last second to extend these)

Vanish and dance have to be used properly, you want to get as many ambushes / evis in during this time as possible and saving one ambush for the last second to extend find weakness. This means having a strong SnD / Rupture up prior to using Dance. Also you need to (with subterfuge) have 120 energy when you vanish to get 2x ambushes off.

Keeping these in mind you need to get "lucky" or plan proper moments of burst (trinkets or stationary boss) and you cant wait more then ~5 seconds before dancing every time its up.

Hope his helps a bit.

Its actually not viable to take subterfuge over shadowfoucs. In theory you will get a dps increase if you take subterfuge and glyph of vanish, but the difference is in the very small double digits, which makes it not worth swaping out any other glyph that gives you utility much more valuable than 10-20 dps. In addition subterfuge is only a dps increase if you execute it perfectly which is not even possible on every encounter.

[PessimiStick]

I lose over 500 DPS switching from Subterfuge to Shadow Focus in SimCraft. It's not trivial.

[xquizite]

Its actually not viable to take subterfuge over shadowfoucs. In theory you will get a dps increase if you take subterfuge and glyph of vanish, but the difference is in the very small double digits, which makes it not worth swaping out any other glyph that gives you utility much more valuable than 10-20 dps. In addition subterfuge is only a dps increase if you execute it perfectly which is not even possible on every encounter.

99 percent of all top parses disagree with you