PvE Sub Rogue Rotation Question (Opening, Garrote and Hemo)

[Deleted]

What is wrong with

Premed, Garrote, SnD, Ambush, Backstab, SR, Trinket, Rupture, SD, Ambush/Evis

?

[DakonBlackblade]

We seriously need a consensus opener with cold hard facts (aka logs) proving one is better than the other, theres a lot of speculation going on here...

[polyxena]

You can also do your own testing, I particularly seem to do better with premed, snd, garrote, bs bs normal rotation.

But the other rogue in my guild does it slightly differently and he gets about the same results, when he tries to do my method he doesnt seem to do very well.

[jsz]

We seriously need a consensus opener with cold hard facts (aka logs) proving one is better than the other, theres a lot of speculation going on here...

There's gonna be a point where it's a tiny tiny difference between openers.

I've been doing Premed > SnD > Pre-pot > Garrote > Ambush > Shadow Reflection/Coin/Berserking > Dance

[Rosvall]

For the love of God, I wish that people would stop using SD + SR on the opener. SR does not have GCD, hence it will take effect at the same time as SD...except that the clone does not (need to) benefit from SD, so you are potentially losing a GCD that you could have turned into yellow damage for the clone. No idea why even Simcraft is doing this, need a competent rogue to figure out that coding shit and take control of it plz.

Technically; since you wont be GCD capped during the first eight seconds of dance anyways, it doesn't matter.

[Estocire]

What is wrong with

Premed, Garrote, SnD, Ambush, Backstab, SR, Trinket, Rupture, SD, Ambush/Evis

?

After going through a lot of openers recently this is pretty much what I have settled on. SV and FW up at the start, SnD up right after energy usage and the only difference I make is I might throw in another Backstab so I have a 5cp Rupture in SR. It feels good to use and it works really well if your SnD procs the energy gain. I think a lot of openers pull around the same numbers and I am not sure which one is the absolute best, but for me this one is good enough.

[Deleted]

After going through a lot of openers recently this is pretty much what I have settled on. SV and FW up at the start, SnD up right after energy usage and the only difference I make is I might throw in another Backstab so I have a 5cp Rupture in SR. It feels good to use and it works really well if your SnD procs the energy gain. I think a lot of openers pull around the same numbers and I am not sure which one is the absolute best, but for me this one is good enough.

I've been using this since the change to HaT and I rarely if ever need to refresh rupture or SnD during dance unless I have massive amounts multistrike procs (which is good!). There are a few instances where I might not get a HaT proc for the 5cp rupture but it is very rare in the conditions of the fight. I think out of 30 parses it has not been a 5cp rupture once.

[Floopa]

is there anything wrong with premed > sndx2 and opening garrote + HaT > ambush > HaT > SR/Coin > Rupture > SD > normal dmg

[Estocire]

is there anything wrong with premed > sndx2 and opening garrote + HaT > ambush > HaT > SR/Coin > Rupture > SD > normal dmg

You need a longer pull timer. That is basically the opener I am using, but adjusted to only having a standard 10s pull timer. If you can get a longer timer to set up a long SnD before the pull it is better.

[Slykila]

Jdance where are you to settle this? lol

[Floopa]

You need a longer pull timer. That is basically the opener I am using, but adjusted to only having a standard 10s pull timer. If you can get a longer timer to set up a long SnD before the pull it is better.

ah i normally "wait" on the ready check haha

prem > SND when prem is 11 sec CD, then i click rdy >D

[shaithis]

I will confirm again that Premed SnD Ambush Hemo SR Rupture Dance feels great (Garrote Ambush instead of Ambush Hemo may be stronger though). The only hairy part is that both SND and Rupture need refresh very shortly after SR ends, but I generally had the combo points to do so without losing uptime. Still working on remembering to pool a bit so I can Ambush before FW drops off, otherwise feel 100% better.

[Galufio]

ah i normally "wait" on the ready check haha

prem > SND when prem is 11 sec CD, then i click rdy >D

Lol nice option ^^ gonna try it today)

[Deleted]

Loving Sub atm but i'm still struggling on when i should Hemo and when i need to pool energy.
Anyone have any hints/advice?

[Jarvid]

Sorry for double posting. Already posted this in the simulation craft thread, but I guess it fits in here better.

Even if I fear to post things already known. After some testing on the Shadow Reflection it looks for me, as only the 8 Seconds where it memorizes your actions, are important for its stats. Or simpler said: When I used Potion of Agility with 8 seconds left and casted Shadow Reflection, the skills copied by the reflection (starting when Potion buff was already gone) still had increased damage as if the agility was still increased.
Not saying it is entirly snapshotting, as having the agility buff, when "creating" the Shadow reflection is not enough, it has to be active the first 8 seconds.

Can someone confirm this? If wasn't doing this with logs only with recount and reading the min/max amount of the damge of the skills of the copy.

If this is true, openers could be even more optimized I guess to let the SR profit from the pre pot.

At least for people like me, Who have bad look with scales of doom loot roles :-)

[Dekk]

I've been doing

Premed at 10 sec
SnD at 2 sec
Pre Pot at 1 sec
Shadowstep
Garrote
Ambush
HoT to 5 combo
Trinkets and SR
Rupture
Shadow Dance
Ambush
Rotation

Seems good... I like it anyways.

[Twix]

Question: should we use SR before or after applying rupture in the opener? for sub that is

[Estocire]

Loving Sub atm but i'm still struggling on when i should Hemo and when i need to pool energy.
Anyone have any hints/advice?

If you have high multistrike (maybe > 20%) you do not need to use hemo at all, except maybe to keep SV up if your rupture drops. If not (like me) I use it whenever FW is not up and Hemo drops off or to refresh SV if rupture drops.

I've been doing

Premed at 10 sec
SnD at 2 sec
Pre Pot at 1 sec
Shadowstep
Garrote
Ambush
HoT to 5 combo
Trinkets and SR
Rupture
Shadow Dance
Ambush
Rotation

Seems good... I like it anyways.

Are you able to keep SnD up all the time? that was the problem I was having when using this opener.

Question: should we use SR before or after applying rupture in the opener? for sub that is

Using it before makes it so that you get a double rupture.

[triumvir]

So to get this straight, the rupture applied by your SR does NOT fall off when SR finishes? If so, does the SV stay on the target? So rather than getting rupture back up after SR falls off I can get 5 pt snd up

[Estocire]

So to get this straight, the rupture applied by your SR does NOT fall off when SR finishes? If so, does the SV stay on the target? So rather than getting rupture back up after SR falls off I can get 5 pt snd up

Practicing on the training dummy, the ruptures do show as 2 separate debuffs that last their entire duration, but the combat log only shows the SR's doing damage while the main one is up so I guess its not quite a double rupture. I think it still worth applying at the very start of every SR before SD though since the SR's Rupture would be equivlant to a 3 point rupture, which is more damage than an ambush. As for the SV buff since I would refresh Rupture after my main one got < 8 seconds anyways it doesn't really matter if the SR's triggers SV while its debuff is still "active" on the target.