Flight MH17 was downed by the 53rd Russian Air Defense Brigade.

[zealo]

Has this actually been confirmed at this point or is it just a rumour that it was the Russians?

Even so, it wouldn't surprise me if they had a hand in MH17 getting shot down.

[Zecora]

Just curious why you would find it difficult to believe? They're fighting a pseudo-war with what appears to be a very loose command structure/oversight.

Because they are trained troops, and the last thing Kreml would want is too much attention drawn to what's going on. Far more likely that the Separatists had been given the missile system, and made a huge mistake (as the early messages implied).

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It would not be the 1st time a nation downed a Civilian Airliner due to mistaken identity or simply not caring.
Korean Air Lines Flight 007
Iran Air Flight 655
El Al Flight 402
Siberia Airlines Flight 1812

No, it wouldn't be. I still think it was the Separatists though.

[NYC17]

Because they are trained troops, and the last thing Kreml would want is too much attention drawn to what's going on. Far more likely that the Separatists had been given the missile system, and made a huge mistake (as the early messages implied).

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No, it wouldn't be. I still think it was the Separatists though.

Yes, trained so well as to only be caught "on vacation". I'm not saying this report proves it was Russians by any means, but relying on the concept that "they're trained" and it would be illogical for the Kremlin to want this is a bit odd.

[Paulosio]

It has nothing to do with WoW. MH-17 was a civilian aircraft that was shot down over Ukraine airspace during the "war" between Ukrainian army and separatist regions of far east Ukraine. Investigative reports indicate that it was in-fact Russian brigade that shot down the aircraft, not the separatists.

Someone doesn't have a sense of humour.

[Tokru]

Has this actually been confirmed at this point or is it just a rumour that it was the Russians?

Even so, it wouldn't surprise me if they had a hand in MH17 getting shot down.

Regarding the lack of ANY coverage in the news today i will keep skeptical.

[Zecora]

Yes, trained so well as to only be caught "on vacation". I'm not saying this report proves it was Russians by any means, but relying on the concept that "they're trained" and it would be illogical for the Kremlin to want this is a bit odd.

But surely you find it more likely that the completely untrained Separatists, who have no-one to answer to, made the mistake? Especially given the post they made on...twitter, or wherever it was, first bragging that they had shot down an enemy troop transport plane, then hastily removing the message.

[NYC17]

But surely you find it more likely that the completely untrained Separatists, who have no-one to answer to, made the mistake? Especially given the post they made on...twitter, or wherever it was, first bragging that they had shot down an enemy troop transport plane, then hastily removing the message.

I think they certainly played a part in it. The most likely scenario, to me, is that it was a combination of Russians and separatists.

[Jackmoves]

Because they are trained troops, and the last thing Kreml would want is too much attention drawn to what's going on. Far more likely that the Separatists had been given the missile system, and made a huge mistake (as the early messages implied).

Kreml has sent armour, troops and equipment into Ukraine for almost a year now. The most hilarious part of the whole ordeal being the paratroopers from the 76th air assault division(from Pskov.... which is faaaar from the Ukrainian border) who got captured while being on "vacation". There is war in Europe and it doesn't really matter who pressed the button and shot the airplane down. Without Russian aggression it never would have happend.

[Creotor]

Regarding the lack of ANY coverage in the news today i will keep skeptical.

This is "the first nonprofit investigative newsroom in the German-speaking world" (their words). It appears it's not very well known yet.

Just from reading the quoted part of the report here though, it doesn't seem to be incredibly professional to me.

It is quite interesting to see how some people here who were absolutely confident it were the rebels who shot it down have unsubscribed from that idea without any qualms whatsoever. Makes their confidence look rather suspect.

Another funny thing is that this goes against the "separatist" phone conversation leaked by SBU (Ukrainian security service) that allegedly took place immediately after the shootdown where one of the separatists says that cossacks at one of the outposts shot it down. Cossacks, who are not part of either army and aren't trained to operate such equipment.

[Deleted]

Because they are trained troops, and the last thing Kreml would want is too much attention drawn to what's going on. Far more likely that the Separatists had been given the missile system, and made a huge mistake (as the early messages implied)
No, it wouldn't be. I still think it was the Separatists though.

Yes, its unlikely Russian troops did it (directly) as they have access to the air defence monitoring system, they would know that what they saw wasn't a Ukrainian plane.

[NYC17]

This is "the first nonprofit investigative newsroom in the German-speaking world" (their words). It appears it's not very well known yet.

Just from reading the quoted part of the report here though, it doesn't seem to be incredibly professional to me.

It is quite interesting to see how some people here who were absolutely confident it were the rebels who shot it down have unsubscribed from that idea without any qualms whatsoever. Makes their confidence look rather suspect.

You should name names.

[Tokru]

This is "the first nonprofit investigative newsroom in the German-speaking world" (their words). It appears it's not very well known yet.

It's well known enough to get coverage on a gaming offtopic forum but noone in the actual media industry (the guys who find even the crudest "news" from around the world) finds it?

[Creotor]

You should name names.

Crispin.
You're forgetting yourself, however - you've had enough of my inane rambling.

It's well known enough to get coverage on a gaming offtopic forum but noone in the actual media industry (the guys who find even the crudest "news" from around the world) finds it?

How does this being posted on an off-topic forum of any kind indicate it's well known? All kinds of people from all the walks of life hang out here and post whatever they want. Case in point being a thread about which movie/series cast you'd like to bang or how many pairs of footwear you own or what kind of watches you dream of. Are all those popular topics?

As for actual news outlets picking this up, one did:
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv...17-377063.html
You could probably find a couple more, but most are not talking about this because, again, this is not a well-known source with any serious reputation yet and the actual report does not look particularly credible. Most of what it did is compile information that's been available for a while and present it in a certain way.

[Ninepenny]

They didn't post any ID/dent/scratches comparisons and yet that's the only bridge (they claim it does) that connects the Russian BUK and the one inside Ukraine territory. Without this small yet vital part, this "investigation" is just a bunch of borrowed footage, hearsay and long-jump assumptions.

[Kellhound]

The thing is MH-17 was close enough to Russia to have been downed by a SAM or AAM fired from Russia.

[Wilian]

Military experts told CORRECT!V only highly trained specialists acting as a close-knit unit could have operated the Buk, and they would have had just seconds from switching on their radar to firing the rocket or risk being targeted themselves.

This claim here to me sounds dubious at best. Just after the event many military experts went open in public and into many news organizations to say that BuK is in fact, quite operable with minimium amount of training due to it's Soviet roots and need for easily taught systems.

[Crispin]

Crispin.
You're forgetting yourself, however - you've had enough of my inane rambling.

I honestly do not view the rebels and the Russian military as 2 seperate units, I'm guessing you do?

[GennGreymane]

And Putin does not care


Good thing oil prices+ sanctions are finally starting to hit

[StayTuned]

And Putin does not care


Good thing oil prices+ sanctions are finally starting to hit

Not so much a good thing anymore when you think about the innocent Russian people who often are just concerned about survival. The Rubel is basically a trash currency right now. It lost what? Half of its value?

Putin is not the only one suffering here. So saying it's a good thing is cynical. It's showing effects, whether or not it should be considered good is not really a statement one should make

[GennGreymane]

Not so much a good thing anymore when you think about the innocent Russian people who often are just concerned about survival. The Rubel is basically a trash currency right now. It lost what? Half of its value?

Putin is not the only one suffering here. So saying it's a good thing is cynical. It's showing effects, whether or not it should be considered good is not really a statement one should make

I am sure that we would agree that open conflict is not something that we would want, so the next best thing is the economic sanctions. Since you do not like that choice as much either, what would your suggestion be?