Gladiator VS Fury - Pve

[Lundgren]

See my PS. Bloodbath scales with your ability damage, so it will be a bit higher. Also your "+Buff" numbers are off, not sure how, but pretty much

again you were right, a little glitch in an excell function

Ability Dmg done Średni
Heroic Strike 3193750 7976
Devastate 2425500 15968
Shield Slam 2215500 29185
Deep Wounds 2094750 10148
Melee 1146250 7011
Revenge 1396500 25324
Bloodbath 675588 3361
Dragon Roar 407838 33983
Overall 13555675

So overall increase
P.S Skip bloobath. I know it will do more dmg.

[Zka]

P.S Skip bloobath. I know it will do more dmg.

Hard to tell how much more, it depends what you use during it. I used x1.2 as a rough approximation. Maybe that's a bit high.
Our numbers match now.

[Barael]

bloodbath - it scales with your ability damage, therefore I applied a 1.2x on that. My Twins HS contrib was much lower, that explains some of the difference.

Yeah that's fair, I didn't think of that. About 2% buff for Twins and 2.4% for Butcher with 1.2 post-nerf modifier to Bloodbath.

[Zka]

Yeah that's fair, I didn't think of that. About 2% buff for Twins and 2.4% for Butcher with 1.2 post-nerf modifier to Bloodbath.

So we can safely say it's roughly a 2% buff for 1-2 target fights and much more for heavier AOE fights like Tectus.

[FishHead]

So now we've made a full circle and are back to my initial question, what part of working your ass off and not get rewarded appropriately is fun? Playing a class means to me that you play whatever spec necessary, not irrationally sticking to one and ignoring common sense especially when content is as punishing as it is now.

If you work harder than others then you should get compensated for it. Long ago Enhancement shamans had to work tons more with their abilities and totems than others, but the raid was greatly rewarded for it which made it worth the effort. The only thing you gain with Gladiator's Resolve is that you get to imagine yourself as Leonidas and lose to everyone who has a clue what the hell their doing while taking slightly less damage.

Glad is the easiest dps spec to play from my experience so you're doing something wrong if you're working harder. APM means nothing since that's just heroic strike spam which you can easily bind to the mousewheel and practically forget about. You just have to make sure you're not spamming it when US stacks and rage are low. Otherwise you're just spamming Devastate between Revenge and SS and other crap.

[Gephyrophobia]

So now we've made a full circle and are back to my initial question, what part of working your ass off and not get rewarded appropriately is fun? Playing a class means to me that you play whatever spec necessary, not irrationally sticking to one and ignoring common sense especially when content is as punishing as it is now.

If you work harder than others then you should get compensated for it. Long ago Enhancement shamans had to work tons more with their abilities and totems than others, but the raid was greatly rewarded for it which made it worth the effort. The only thing you gain with Gladiator's Resolve is that you get to imagine yourself as Leonidas and lose to everyone who has a clue what the hell their doing while taking slightly less damage.

You act as if pressing keys on a keyboard is an olympic sport. No spec in the game is hard by any stretch of the imagination. If you can't muscle memory a rotation and press glowy buttons while doing mechanics that's on you. There is no "working your ass off". Plus, gladiator itself is incredibly easy to play. Just because you have a filler attack doesn't suddenly mean it's harder than the other two specs. You must think SWTOR is a very challenging game because there are no auto attacks but every class has a spammable filler ability.

[Ssateneth]

True... forgot about that:

Twin Ogron Mythic
Ability Dmg done Average
Heroic Strike 3650000 9115,3
Devastate 2310000 15207,8
Shield Slam 2110000 27794,8
Deep Wounds 1710000 8284,1
Melee 1310000 8012,7
Revenge 1140000 20672,5
Bloodbath 772100 3841,5
Dragon Roar 466100 38838
Overall 13468200

Nerf 12,5% gladiator stance
Ability Dmg done Average
Heroic Strike 3193750 7748
Devastate 2021250 12927
Shield Slam 1846250 23626
Deep Wounds 1496250 7041
Melee 1146250 6811
Revenge 997500 17572
Bloodbath 675588 3265
Dragon Roar 407838 33012
Overall 11784675

Nerf 12,5% gladiator stance + Buff
Ability Dmg done Średni
Heroic Strike 3193750 7748
Devastate 2122313 13573
Shield Slam 1938563 24807
Deep Wounds 2549313 9084
Melee 1146250 6811
Revenge 1246875 21965
Bloodbath 675588 3265
Dragon Roar 407838 33012
Overall 13280488

But still a little nerf... something like 1,4% or 1,3% with Bloodbath

Your numbers seem off. Devastate got buffed by 20%. But 2122313 isnt 20% bigger than 2021250. Its only 5%. I think you double dipped somewhere. let me fix your numbers

Twin Ogron Mythic
Ability Dmg done Average
Heroic Strike 3650000 9115,3
Devastate 2310000 15207,8
Shield Slam 2110000 27794,8
Deep Wounds 1710000 8284,1
Melee 1310000 8012,7
Revenge 1140000 20672,5
Bloodbath 772100 3841,5
Dragon Roar 466100 38838
Overall 13468200

Nerf 12,5% gladiator stance
Ability Dmg done Average
Heroic Strike 3193750 7748
Devastate 2021250 12927
Shield Slam 1846250 23626
Deep Wounds 1496250 7041
Melee 1146250 6811
Revenge 997500 17572
Bloodbath 675588 3265
Dragon Roar 407838 33012
Overall 11784675

Nerf 12,5% gladiator stance + Buff
Ability Dmg done Średni
Heroic Strike 3193750 7748
Devastate 2425500 15512.4 (this was previous miscalculated to 5% buff, now correctly 20%)
Shield Slam 2215500 28351.2 (this was previous miscalculated to 5% buff, now correctly 20%)
Deep Wounds 2094750 9857.4 (no idea why it was so large. 1496250 * 1.4 = 2094750)
Melee 1146250 6811
Revenge 1396500 21965 (incorrectly +25%, now +40%)
Bloodbath 675588 3265
Dragon Roar 407838 33012
Overall 13555676

+0.65%

[Zka]

+0.65%

You forgot bloodbath which scales with the ability damage so it's definitely going to be higher.

[Lundgren]

Youve checked the oldest post. It was calculated corectly few posts after.

[caervek]

Your numbers seem off. Devastate got buffed by 20%. But 2122313 isnt 20% bigger than 2021250. Its only 5%.

It's almost as if his numbers were compensating for a -15% nerf to Glad stance or something ;P

Also the numbers have already been fixed.

Also I like cake.

[Barael]

So we can safely say it's roughly a 2% buff for 1-2 target fights and much more for heavier AOE fights like Tectus.

Yeah seems HS-heavy fights like Twins are the worst case scenario with around 2% buff, pure single target is slightly better and heavy AoE fights could see a considerable buff. Hopefully I'll get to do DPS on Tectus tomorrow.

[Strafir]

Glad is the easiest dps spec to play from my experience so you're doing something wrong if you're working harder. APM means nothing since that's just heroic strike spam which you can easily bind to the mousewheel and practically forget about. You just have to make sure you're not spamming it when US stacks and rage are low. Otherwise you're just spamming Devastate between Revenge and SS and other crap.

You act as if pressing keys on a keyboard is an olympic sport. No spec in the game is hard by any stretch of the imagination. If you can't muscle memory a rotation and press glowy buttons while doing mechanics that's on you. There is no "working your ass off". Plus, gladiator itself is incredibly easy to play. Just because you have a filler attack doesn't suddenly mean it's harder than the other two specs. You must think SWTOR is a very challenging game because there are no auto attacks but every class has a spammable filler ability.

I'm done having this conversation if you refuse to understand that 90 is a much much larger number than 35-40 and that prot has to juggle significantly more balls than the other damage specs for zero gain.

Maybe it's easier to exist if you're convince that mechanically you're just THAT much better than everyone else.

[Bigbazz]

So now we've made a full circle and are back to my initial question, what part of working your ass off and not get rewarded appropriately is fun? Playing a class means to me that you play whatever spec necessary, not irrationally sticking to one and ignoring common sense especially when content is as punishing as it is now.

If you work harder than others then you should get compensated for it. Long ago Enhancement shamans had to work tons more with their abilities and totems than others, but the raid was greatly rewarded for it which made it worth the effort. The only thing you gain with Gladiator's Resolve is that you get to imagine yourself as Leonidas and lose to everyone who has a clue what the hell their doing while taking slightly less damage.

I don't think you understand that Gladiator is not hard work, it's really not hard work at all. The way I play it (which is on 2 separate hands doing 2 separate jobs as far as abilities and heroic strike are concerned, just as I'd played Fury/Arms in the past) makes it very fluid and does not require any "work"... It's simply not even an issue, on a 3 hour raiding night it does not once enter my mind that I'd like to switch specs to give myself a break, simply because I don't find it tiring.

It's amazing how firstly so many people who don't play Gladiator assume that it's not so great, when infact it is fantastic on many fights and the damage is very competitive in most scenarios. Secondly amazing how people think that the spec is somehow hard to play and that we're doing ourselves a disservice by playing such a high speed spec..

Like you have to get it into your brain that playstyle wise it makes absolutely no difference at all to my performance or the performance of any of the other remaining raiding Gladiators. I didn't make the switch to Fury because Gladiator was still beating Fury on damage for me (on paper and in game), and without serious Fury gear upgrades coming my way that would not change. I've not been in a hurry to make the switch to Fury because I find it snoozeworthy in comparison to playing Gladiator, and until I see a meaningful difference in damage I will continue to play Gladiator and love every moment.


And in any case, these changes might tip the scale slightly more towards staying with Gladiator and just having an Arms offspec.

[FishHead]

I don't think you understand that Gladiator is not hard work, it's really not hard work at all. The way I play it (which is on 2 separate hands doing 2 separate jobs as far as abilities and heroic strike are concerned, just as I'd played Fury/Arms in the past) makes it very fluid and does not require any "work"... It's simply not even an issue, on a 3 hour raiding night it does not once enter my mind that I'd like to switch specs to give myself a break, simply because I don't find it tiring.

It's amazing how firstly so many people who don't play Gladiator assume that it's not so great, when infact it is fantastic on many fights and the damage is very competitive in most scenarios. Secondly amazing how people think that the spec is somehow hard to play and that we're doing ourselves a disservice by playing such a high speed spec..

Like you have to get it into your brain that playstyle wise it makes absolutely no difference at all to my performance or the performance of any of the other remaining raiding Gladiators. I didn't make the switch to Fury because Gladiator was still beating Fury on damage for me (on paper and in game), and without serious Fury gear upgrades coming my way that would not change. I've not been in a hurry to make the switch to Fury because I find it snoozeworthy in comparison to playing Gladiator, and until I see a meaningful difference in damage I will continue to play Gladiator and love every moment.


And in any case, these changes might tip the scale slightly more towards staying with Gladiator and just having an Arms offspec.

He clearly didn't even read my post because I addressed the higher APM issue, or rather non-issue.

I've also been wanting to switch to Fury myself but I can't seem to get rid of my damn BA gear, though it may be because the game knows I don't really want to switch. Glad just feels so much more fun and solid to play than Fury, and I love stealing gear from tanks.

[Gephyrophobia]

I'm done having this conversation if you refuse to understand that 90 is a much much larger number than 35-40 and that prot has to juggle significantly more balls than the other damage specs for zero gain.

Maybe it's easier to exist if you're convince that mechanically you're just THAT much better than everyone else.

I "understand" you just fine; the point is that having more "balls to juggle" isn't even close to a bad thing. Guess ferals should delete their characters and all go frost DKs because it's less buttons? Hell, let's all go back to cata arcane!

[Deleted]

From what I've seen at around 670 or less, Gladiator spec is better on pretty much every boss. Pure single target like Butcher, the gap closes a bit. The passive cleave from the glyph is really good for Gladiator on fights like Brakenspore and Twins when paired with Unquenchable Thirst.
I do however only have one heroic weapon and one normal weapon, but I remain sceptical that Fury will take over a lead with two heroic weapons until higher item levels.
Oh yeah and I do agree to an extent with the APM thing. Gladiator does take a lot more APM to get the best out of it in the situations I mentioned above.
Personally I don't really like Fury that much now. There's moments where you're standing doing nothing waiting for Bloodthirst to cooldown when you've got no rage and using Furious Strikes. It just doesn't play as well as it did in Mists.