Guardian Thrash......

[aggixx]

When you say SD scale with gear I assume you're using the 100% dodge thingie, wich I was led to believe was by far inferior to pulverize, isnt this the case anymore?

No, its because its additive mitigation (compared to something like Barkskin or Survival Instincts, or Shield of the Righteous). Ex: 0% dodge, SR is 45% mitigation. At 20% dodge, SD raises your dodge to 65% which is the difference between taking 80% of the damage or 35% of the damage, a 56.25% reduction.

The problem is that your dodge doesn't really increase that much with gear so the scaling of SD's benefit is pretty negligible compared to something like the scaling of Shield of the Righteous for prot paladin. Since Blizzard cares about the effect of secondary's far more than anything else, mastery has to be impactful or the stat would be worthless. This is part of the reason why it is diversified into also granting block chance so the increasing returns on SotR's damage reduction doesn't get too out of hand.

[Jeromicz]

I agree with every one here... I was trying to get in on a just a normal imp kill and had 656 item lvl and was told no and not invited into the group because they would rather wait for a warrior tank. And now bears are nerfed even more. Granted are aoe was high but we needed to be able to bring something to at least have argument and why to get in on the raid. Also I am surpized more haven't said stuff about are old modle. Moonkins can glyph for different. Cats at least got the burning seeds for a fire kitty. Yet bears look they same as they always have. Running around with are mouths open. It would be nice to see something we're you could see armor on the bear like incarnation. Make them actually look like they can tank a boss. And the gear on them could be transmoged. Currently I transmog my gear and have people look at it before raid cause that's the only time they really get to see it

[villiansv]

I agree with every one here... I was trying to get in on a just a normal imp kill and had 656 item lvl and was told no and not invited into the group because they would rather wait for a warrior tank.

In all likelihood they wanted a warr because of heroic leap during P3 rooting mark, which is probably the easiest way to handle it (or rather the hardest to mess up) and pugs out of necessity go for easy. Although with a properly timed taunt from the other tank you can always displacer beast far enough if you start moving out a few seconds before the cast begins (theorising here since I don't tank on druid, but monk).

[teddabear]

I dont believe we need a complete make-over.

I also dont feel like SD is that bad of a AM. I mean you might have a bad rng sometimes but it pretty rare. Its not like every 4th SD you dodge nothing. I like the fact that you can have SD up and use TnC as much as possible, throw in one of our three heals. Having 2 SI charges is pretty nice.

In an encounter where you are getting hit for 10% of your health SD would not be bad. In an encounter where you get hit for 30+% of your health SD is very bad. Healing touch procs are not reliable. If they stacked and you could bank them for a long period of time then they would be worth something. You can't use FR if you used your rage on SD. An absorb can be blown away by a 1 point hit from an add. Everything about Guardian mitigation is unreliable.

[Dreyen]

Because 30% movement speed is clearly not op lol. When you say SD scale with gear I assume you're using the 100% dodge thingie, wich I was led to believe was by far inferior to pulverize, isnt this the case anymore?

And well, while I agree your CD's are not the strongest you do have 2 charges on survival instincts but the barkskin duration/CD is not much worse than a warriors demo shout.

I guess 30% might be exagerated, paladins easily hover between 15 and 30% depending on holypower though with their speed talent, ours is a static 15%. We did have a 15% or 30% movement speed talent back in the day that was always active, and with pvp gear it went to 45%..

2 charge on survival instincts is not that great, once you use both of them, your cooldown is on a 2minute timer like everyone else. I mean we used to have 30sec 30% barskin and might of ursoc on top of double 70% SI...

[teddabear]

Lets imagine 2 theoretical situations.

In the first the Guardian periodically takes undodgable heavy magic damage but also has a healing debuff on him. How well does hit toolkit work for that? How does it compare with every other tank?

In the second he is being hit by a group of hard hitting adds and they hit for magic damage. How well does hit toolkit work for that? How does it compare with every other tank?

[Quotey]

Lets imagine 2 theoretical situations.

In the first the Guardian periodically takes undodgable heavy magic damage but also has a healing debuff on him. How well does hit toolkit work for that? How does it compare with every other tank?

In the second he is being hit by a group of hard hitting adds and they hit for magic damage. How well does hit toolkit work for that? How does it compare with every other tank?

the second he thrashes and FRs every global or two

[Dreyen]

Lets imagine 2 theoretical situations.

In the first the Guardian periodically takes undodgable heavy magic damage but also has a healing debuff on him. How well does hit toolkit work for that? How does it compare with every other tank?

In the second he is being hit by a group of hard hitting adds and they hit for magic damage. How well does hit toolkit work for that? How does it compare with every other tank?

Well it's obviously not theorical is it? Both are very rare situations.

For case 1, brackenspore, you could always put on a stam/multistrike set, or if it's that deadly, spec GoE and chain 2 back to back 100% dodge so the melees don't hit you. Otherwise, it is a pretty shit mechanic for guardians indeed, and probably every tank will deal with it better than them... but nothing that can't be dealt with CDs and externals. You can always glyph survival instinct to have a really short cooldown on your shieldwall.

2nd one being imperator adds/koragh adds, savage defense still works, and with pulverize bears have the highest hp AND passive magic reduction out of all tanks, otherwise they are the same as everyone else except warriors who stand at 25% magic DR with glad stance. I don't see bears being worse than other tanks unless it's for a short period, where DKs and monks can shine with AMS/Diffuse magic